D&D 5E Asmodeus in 5E Faerun

[Alzrius]

Yes, I see your point. I've pointed out where you could directly ask Ed (including his ''questions for'' thread over Candlekeep, even if the answer will be delivered by THO there, and even if she hasn't been posting for about 1 month now).

You have, and I appreciate that. I'll figure out a way to ask him directly at some point.

On a side note about the particular answers that I linked: about Tyranny of Dragons, Ed tried to get WotC'explanation; WotC didn't have one, so he made one and that's as official as you will get on the matter. About the Eilistraee&Vhaeraun answer, Ed simply clarified on a passage in his novel, so that's canon. On Halruaa, I've asked about the state of the region in the canon Realms, and he answered to that (just like most questions are about the canon Realms), according to what WotC has agreed on.

I feel like there's little for me to say here, since at this point we're largely rehashing the points we've already made. He might very well be "as official as you'll get" where WotC hasn't filled in a particular creative space, but that's not the same thing as being "canon" per se. The interpretation of his novel is interesting, but if he's just clarifying some sort of ambiguity, then it's a moot point, since it's about a published work, rather than his bypassing the publishers to establish canonity directly.

Besides, he does specify when his answers are non-canon and only from his home game and he does check when he can't talk about something or when WotC has already established canon about a certain matter (for example, in 2012, when asked about what the Sundering would have done to specific areas/characters of the Realms, he simply answered ''can't talk/don't know yet''. The fact that he answered now means that those are indeed official --and that he currently is the only source of reliable info on the post-Sundering FR, since WotC isn't really releasing lore about them--).

Not being able to talk about something because it's an area that WotC is going to do something with doesn't necessarily construe that anything he does talk about is "canon." That would require that he have some sort of special status, which brings us back around to the original point of his "contract."

 

[Irennan]

You have, and I appreciate that. I'll figure out a way to ask him directly at some point.

if/when you do, could you post it here?

The interpretation of his novel is interesting, but if he's just clarifying some sort of ambiguity, then it's a moot point, since it's about a published work, rather than his bypassing the publishers to establish canonity directly.

[sblock]In his novel (Spellstorm) it is implied that Eilistraee is alive, somehow, since Mystra is sharing the Weave with her. In Erin Evan's Sundering novel there are hints at Vhaeraun having a chosen. So, the question was about clarifying what happened to them, upon which Ed didn't reveal most details, but revealed that both of them are back and made their return known to their followers.[/sblock]

Not being able to talk about something because it's an area that WotC is going to do something with doesn't necessarily construe that anything he does talk about is "canon." That would require that he have some sort of special status, which brings us back around to the original point of his "contract."

What I mean is that (as a side note, even setting aside the contract), since he wouldn't talk about the post-Sundering Realms before (because NDA or the matter hadn't been nailed down yet), but he is doing that now, it means that he's giving info that WotC has agreed on, so they must be reliable (otherwise he would keep saying that he can't talk or doesn't know).

 

[Alzrius]

if/when you do, could you post it here?

I can, but that would just be another person on the internet making a claim as to what someone told them.

In his novel (Spellstorm) it is implied that Eilistraee has to be alive, somehow, since Mystra is sharing the Weave with her. In Erin Evan's Sundering novel there are hints at Vhaeraun having a chosen. So, the question was about clarifying what happened to them, upon which Ed didn't reveal most details, but revealed that both of them are back and made their return known to their followers.

Spoiler alert, if you please.

What I mean is that (as a side note, even setting aside the contract), since he wouldn't talk about the post-Sundering Realms before (because NDA or the matter hadn't been nailed down yet), but he is doing that now, it means that he's giving info that WotC has agreed on, so they must be reliable (otherwise he would keep saying that he can't talk or doesn't know).

The idea that he's giving us glimpses behind the metaphorical curtain - in that because he can talk about it now, it must mean that WotC has hammered out the details, and therefore this is how it really is - is a presumption. That is to say, that's not necessarily the case; his saying stuff now does not inherently mean that it's "info that WotC has agreed on." (As it is, I doubt that WotC is having closed-door meetings to decide the "canon" future of various bits of Realms-lore. While I'm sure a little of that comes into play with planning various novel lines and future products, I find it much harder to believe that they're sitting around making internal-only notes about myriad facets of the game world.)

 

[Irennan]

I can, but that would just be another person on the internet making a claim as to what someone told them.

Not if you post the link to the answer.

Spoiler alert, if you please.

Sorry, it's just that it's a very small passage in the book, with little to no relevance to the story, but I will put the spoilers tag

The idea that he's giving us glimpses behind the metaphorical curtain - in that because he can talk about it now, it must mean that WotC has hammered out the details, and therefore this is how it really is - is a presumption. That is to say, that's not necessarily the case; his saying stuff now does not inherently mean that it's "info that WotC has agreed on." (As it is, I doubt that WotC is having closed-door meetings to decide the "canon" future of various bits of Realms-lore. While I'm sure a little of that comes into play with planning various novel lines and future products, I find it much harder to believe that they're sitting around making internal-only notes about myriad facets of the game world.)

Actually, they did just that. They held meetings discussing how the world would look after the Sundering, with Ed, RAS and the other Sundering authors, I cba to find a link right now, but it started with GenCon 2012 (when the Sundering was announced, and then at the Sundering panels of the successive GenCons). That's why I said that if he's talking about stuff now, it is because he is allowed to, as the picture of the Realms post-Sundering is something that WotC has discussed and agreed on.

 

[Alzrius]

Not if you post the link to the answer.

I was thinking with regards to some sort of face-to-face meeting (e.g. next year's Gen Con; I'm patient).

Sorry, it's just that it's a very small passage in the book, with little to no relevance to the story, but I will put the spoilers tag

I was mostly kidding (hence the smilie) but thanks.

Actually, they did just that. They held meetings discussing how the world would look after the Sundering, with Ed, RAS and the other Sundering authors, I cba to find a link right now, but it started with GenCon 2012 (when the Sundering was announced, and then at the Sundering panels of the successive GenCons). That's why I said that if he's talking about stuff now, it is because he is allowed to, as the picture of the Realms post-Sundering is something that WotC has discussed and agreed on.

I know, I was at those panels - hence why I said "I'm sure a little of that comes into play with planning various novel lines and future products." That doesn't mean that they're hashing out every little bit of setting info at the level that myriad fans keep asking about. Hence, it doesn't necessarily mean that if Ed is talking about various topics now it's therefore because WotC has had meetings discussing and agreeing on. There's certainly an element of that to be found in some things - e.g. he won't talk about something that another author is going to be writing about in the near future - but saying that if he's talking about it then it therefore must be something that WotC has internally decided upon is far from being a truism.

 

[Irennan]

I know, I was at those panels - hence why I said "I'm sure a little of that comes into play with planning various novel lines and future products." That doesn't mean that they're hashing out every little bit of setting info at the level that myriad fans keep asking about. Hence, it doesn't necessarily mean that if Ed is talking about various topics now it's therefore because WotC has had meetings discussing and agreeing on. There's certainly an element of that to be found in some things - e.g. he won't talk about something that another author is going to be writing about in the near future - but saying that if he's talking about it then it therefore must be something that WotC has internally decided upon is far from being a truism.

I agree that the various details haven't been hammered by WotC, but the major stuff? Erin Evans said in her ''questions for'' thread over Candlekeep that WotC RPG department has a rather strict control on how the world looks like. This means that stuff like the state of Halruaa, or which deities are back, or the status of Asmodeus (returning to this thread) haven't been left up in the air (and if they had, what exactly did WotC and the authors talk during those meetings focused on the Realms themselves, and not only on their business side). So, if he wasn't talking before, but is now, it means that something has changed (and it can only be on WotC's side). For example, if the lore on Halruaa was his version (which it couldn't be, since the Spellplague hasn't happened in Ed's Realms) or his spinning a yarn and not the canon one, I'm sure that he would have specified it, since the question was about the canonical state of Halruaa (not ''how could Halruaa survive the Spellplague, if I wanted it to'').

 

[gyor]

WotC could solve all this by releasing a 5e FRCG book.

 

[Alzrius]

I agree that the various details haven't been hammered by WotC, but the major stuff? Erin Evans said in her ''questions for'' thread over Candlekeep that WotC RPG department has a rather strict control on how the world looks like. This means that stuff like the state of Halruaa, or which deities are back, or the status of Asmodeus (returning to this thread) haven't been left up in the air (and if they had, what exactly did WotC and the authors talk during those meetings focused on the Realms themselves, and not only on their business side). So, if he wasn't talking before, but is now, it means that something has changed (and it can only be on WotC's side). For example, if the lore on Halruaa was his version (which it couldn't be, since the Spellplague hasn't happened in Ed's Realms) or his spinning a yarn and not the canon one, I'm sure that he would have specified it, since the question was about the canonical state of Halruaa (not ''how could Halruaa survive the Spellplague, if I wanted it to'').

Even if that were the case, then it's not him declaring canon, so much as parroting materials that WotC themselves has hashed out. As you said, "that" (which is to say, the level of canon) can only be on WotC's side.

 

[Irennan]

Even if that were the case, then it's not him declaring canon, so much as parroting materials that WotC themselves has hashed out. As you said, "that" (which is to say, the level of canon) can only be on WotC's side.

Yeah, ultimately the IP holder has the last word on the setting, I've never questioned that. But the world is so vast and deep that it is basically impossible for the publisher to cover it all, so Ed's word comes as an official source to what hasn't been covered/explained yet (until/unless WotC decides to supercede it), or as expansion/clarification on what has already been covered (and this is especially true now, with WotC's policy of ''what is realmslore?'')

This means that he still can't establish major things that WotC doesn't want to be established (or if he did, then WotC would easily override it). As I said in a previous post, if you ask him for the details about how waterdhavian nobles party, or how a certan rite is performed, then yes, but he won't say that, for example, a deity is back or a nation has been restored if WotC doesn't want said deity or nation to be back (and he never has).

 

[Alzrius]

Yeah, ultimately the IP holder has the last word on the setting, I've never questioned that. But the world is so vast and deep that it is basically impossible for the publisher to cover it all, so Ed's word comes as an official source to what hasn't been covered/explained yet (until/unless WotC decides to supercede it), or as expansion/clarification on what has already been covered (and this is especially true now, with WotC's policy of ''what is realmslore?'')

This means that he still can't establish major things that WotC doesn't want to be established (or if he did, then WotC would easily override it). As I said in a previous post, if you ask him for the details about how waterdhavian nobles party, or how a certan rite is performed, then yes, but he won't say that, for example, a deity is back or a nation has been restored if WotC doesn't want said deity or nation to be back (and he never has).

Yes, but him filling in blanks doesn't make it "official" or otherwise "canon" unto itself. Hence the supposed contractual clause, which hasn't been verified besides one lone internet poster who's talking about it in nonspecific terms, secondhand.