D&D 5E Multiple Initiatives

[Hriston]

A variation on initiatve that I've been wanting to try would work with something like the speed factor initiative found in the DMG. Basically, the players would declare their actions for the round. Then they would each roll one initiative die for each attack and/or action they are planning to take.

The idea is that characters that have multiple attack routines, or can take multiple actions, are able to do so because they are faster with their attacks and/or actions. It also keeps those actions spread out through the round so they don't happen all at once.

Typically I'd expect a character with more than one attack to get her first attack early in the round, and her last attack after most of the other attacks have been resolved. Also, I wouldn't ask for an initiative roll for bonus actions. The players could decide when to use those.

What say you? Too complex? Or is it a needed check on the nova abilities of some characters?

 

[Rune]

Might be a little less complex if you cycled through the initiative with each wave of extra attacks. Everyone goes through a normal turn, but can make only one attack and can save movement for later. Then everyone with a second attack may move as desired and attack in initiative order. Then, everyone with a third attack may do likewise, and so on.

Things get tricky, though, when you start looking at things like volley, whirlwind attack, and action surge. I'd say the first two would happen all at once, but action surge could really drag out a round.

 

[Hriston]

Might be a little less complex if you cycled through the initiative with each wave of extra attacks. Everyone goes through a normal turn, but can make only one attack and can save movement for later. Then everyone with a second attack may move as desired and attack in initiative order. Then, everyone with a third attack may do likewise, and so on.

Things get tricky, though, when you start looking at things like volley, whirlwind attack, and action surge. I'd say the first two would happen all at once, but action surge could really drag out a round.

Cool idea. I'll have to take another look at whirlwind attack and volley. Another potentially problematic interaction is with Thief's Reflexes, because of the way it gives two whole turns based off one initiative roll, but I'd probably let it be as is.

Part of my idea was to let the characters with extra attacks get some of their attacks in first by giving them more chances to get the high initiative, instead of always making them go last. But thanks for the input.

 

[the Jester]

This will absolutely slow the game down, and I don't think it improves anything. Is there a problem you're trying to fix or a playstyle you're trying to achieve? As it is, I don't know what you're after, but all I see happening is a slower game and more complicated, hard-to-keep-track of initiatives.

 

[Rune]

Another thing you could do that won't slow things down as much is to use phases of initiative like Basic did. A ranged attack phase, followed by a melee phase, followed by a spell phase, followed by an extra attacks phase should do it. Of course, this requires a declaration of intent each round, but that, too, should speed things up.

 

[Hriston]

This will absolutely slow the game down, and I don't think it improves anything. Is there a problem you're trying to fix or a playstyle you're trying to achieve? As it is, I don't know what you're after, but all I see happening is a slower game and more complicated, hard-to-keep-track of initiatives.

You got me.

Just another one of my attempts to emulate the way things were done in first edition, particularly as described in this passage from pp. 62-63 of the DMG:

Initiative For Creatures With Multiple Attack Routines: When one or more creatures involved in combat are permitted to use their attack routines twice or more often during the round, then the following initiative determinants are employed. When the attack routine may be used twice, then allow the side with this advantage to attack FIRST and LAST with those members of its group who have this advantage. If it is possessed by both parties, the initiative roll determines which group strikes FIRST and THIRD, which group strikes SECOND and LAST. If one or both groups have members allowed only one attack routine, it will always fall in the middle of the other attacks, the order determined by dicing for initiative, when necessary. If one party has the ability to employ its attack routines thrice, then the other party dices for initiative to see if it, or the multi-routine group, strikes first in the mid-point of the round. Extrapolate for routines which occur four or more times in a round by following the method above. Note that a routine is the attack or attacks usual to the creature concerned, i.e. a weapon (or weapons) for a character, a claw/claw/bite routine for a bear (with incidental damage assessed as it occurs - the hug, for example). A 12th level fighter is allowed attack routines twice in every odd numbered melee round, for example, and this moves up to three per round if a haste spell is cast upon the fighter. Damage from successful attacks is assessed when the "to hit" score is made and damage determined, the creature so taking damage having to survive it in order to follow its attack routine.

I realize what I have suggested doesn't quite do this, but it seemed that allowing for multiple initiative rolls would kind of help mix things up.

Upon reading this again, I might be inclined to see the attacks that are part of the Extra Attack action as all part of the same "attack routine" while use of Action Surge would result in two initiative rolls, or as EGG suggests, simply placing those actions first and last in the initiative order. I kind of like the idea of rolling because it doesn't guarantee having the highest initiative, it just gives you a better chance.