Imaro
Legend
The post you quoted from me didn't speak to whether the criticism was invalid...
D&D 5E So what's exactly wrong with the fighter?
The post you quoted from me didn't speak to whether the criticism was invalid...
Imaro
Legend
So now the goalposts have shifted once again...
IMHO the monk is a good starting point for something like a swordsage, but it has a few fundamental issues and would thus need to be rebuilt from the ground up.
For starters, the monk has many features that simply don't fit the concept. Purity of Body, Tongue of Sun and Moon, Empty Body, Perfect Self, etc all seem like cheesy abilities created in some 70s kung fu movie by a bunch of white guys with no sense of Asian culture. Even Stunning Fist and Ki Empowered Strikes don't fit the theme of a ki swordsman.
Next up are the mechanical difficulties. First off, there fact that many monk abilities only work with unarmed strikes. You can't flurry with a weapon for example. Also, the monk is limited to unarmed Dexterity based characters with a high wisdom. That is extremely limiting for those who want a strength based mythical warrior.
Finally, the monk ultimately suffers from the same fate as fighter when it comes to increasing capability through leveling. Look at the monks abilities. It really doesn't gain any new capabilities as it levels. It gets more ki, but is still performing the same actions at level 20 as it was at level 2 (flurry, step of the wind, etc). Its numbers have gone up, but not the scope of its abilities.
The goalposts are the same. I've been suggesting dealing bonus damage at the cost of an injured hand or 10 stamina points or exhausting the arm chakra for a while now.
Imaro
Legend
Use your extra feat and take GWM or SS (penalty for damage bonus)... I mean the one thing I thought everyone who was looking for an alternative fighter agreed on was that the fighter didn't really need more DPR...
EDIT: But yeah on top of having the most attacks per round and action surge... I guess we could give the fighter even more damage...
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Corpsetaker
First Post
I recommend actually playing the fighter first.
Move 60 feet = Take a Dash Action and then Action Surge so you can move 60 feet and then Attack. Or Dash, Action Surge, Dash again to move 120 feet in one turn.
Deal 8d6 damage = 20 Strength + Action Surge + Great Weapon Master feat with a Greatsword or Maul gives you 2(2d6 + 15), which is actually a better average damage than just a straight 8d6, and you could split it between two targets.
Jump 30 feet = If you take a running start and have 20 Strength, you can jump 20 feet without a roll (PHB 182). The Champion's Remarkable Athlete class feature lets you add your Strength modifier to the distance jumped (PHB 72), so that's 25 feet without a roll. If you want to be able to jump 30 feet, all you have to do is roll an Athletics check to add 5 feet to your jump.
Lift double normal weight = Be an Eldritch Knight and cast Enlarge on yourself. Or play as a Goliath. This is the hardest one on your list.
I would honestly be perfectly fine with a martial class that dealt 20% less damage than the fighter if that class had interesting capabilities and tactical decision making on a round by round basis.
Imaro
Legend
Well one thing I'm starting to notice in this thread is that even the alternate fighter posters don't seem to have a consensus on what exactly is wrong with the fighter and what should be corrected/changed. Some people want a more interesting fighter in combat, some want a mythical fighter, others want a "balanced" fighter in non-combat stuff, another wants maneuvers that take stamina away that are mostly centered around things a fighter can already do...
Imaro
Legend
Yeah I would be curious to know how many people asking for an alternate fighter have played the fighter class and if so which subclass...
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