D&D 5E How to tear a pc's arm off?

[steeldragons]

I'm pretty sure I read something somewhere about a dragon's physical attacks being considered magical weapons for the purposes of bypassing mundane weaopn resistance/immunity...maybe I'm confusing 5e with my own homebrew again...

But, bottom line, if you made it ok for a 6th level mage to become a lich, you can have a silver dragon bite off the lich's arm..,any time you want...on any decent/normal hit with their bite attack. If you want a "system" for some illusion of "balance" or fairness, make a grapple attack or insist on a restrained, prone, or incapacitated condition necessary first...then the bite hit is automatic and you can bite off whatever you want.

 

[adam_antio]

Well, the means to become a Lich are not really bound by level. However, to avoid turning in to a Demilich he needs to routenely cast Imprisonment, a 9th level spell, so yes, most Liches are at least 17th level spellcasters.

However Doragmal, this demon prince of ours, agreed to provide him with the spell as long as he succeeds in corrupting the avenging lawful neutral paladin to evil and chaos. For now, he's doing well!

That said, I don't really like the "the dm does as he pleases" concept here. I'm establishing a precedent by doing so, and it must be something the other players find coherent and just. Any roll I make for tearing his arms off is a roll I will be hit by the next time our dwarven berserker will face an enemy spellcaster! So of course I'm just ruling something out of nowhere, but it must be something that makes sense!

 

[steeldragons]

So, your dwarven berserker has a great big dragon snout full of magically effective pointy teeth? Whatever you have the silver dragon do matters not at all to your players...unless they are silver dragons.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Well, the means to become a Lich are not really bound by level. However, to avoid turning in to a Demilich he needs to routenely cast Imprisonment, a 9th level spell, so yes, most Liches are at least 17th level spellcasters.

However Doragmal, this demon prince of ours, agreed to provide him with the spell as long as he succeeds in corrupting the avenging lawful neutral paladin to evil and chaos. For now, he's doing well!

That said, I don't really like the "the dm does as he pleases" concept here. I'm establishing a precedent by doing so, and it must be something the other players find coherent and just. Any roll I make for tearing his arms off is a roll I will be hit by the next time our dwarven berserker will face an enemy spellcaster! So of course I'm just ruling something out of nowhere, but it must be something that makes sense!

Players always lost the called shot race. DM's have infinite orcs, players only have so many hands, eyes and nuts.

Rather than go all arm bite-y, why not have the dragon do what the PC did - get a boost from a good source. That demon lord probably has some enemies in the empyrean court willing to make that dragon a celestial paladin of St. Goodington.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I don't think we are outside of the rules nearly to the extent people are suggesting. The flexibility of 5e is designed for this sort of thing.

When a character is INCAPACITATED (as per the effect, due to being grappled or unconscious, for example), he is unable to take actions or reactions. I would say an incapacitated character can have its arm ripped of on a strength check.

If it is decided that a silver dragon has no magical attacks, I would suggest that it wants to polymorph into a strong M- or L-sized creature and use one of the +1 weapons in its treasure hoard (which will of course become property of the PCs if they defeat the dragon). Now a young silver dragon does not have an innate shape-changing ability, but an adult one does: once it grows up a bit, it will be able to change shape, rules as written.

Young dragons do have innate spell casting abilities (MM 86), though, and given that they are "solitary shapeshifters" (MM 103) it would be natural for a young silver dragon (who can cast 4 spells a day, up to level 3) to use a spell like Alter self -- it can't make them into bipeds (yet), but it can give them natural weapons that are magical (PHB 212).

Only you can decide whether this is going to be a fun challenge for the player. What's most important, though, is that the arm-ripping serves the story (as it does in Beowulf, for example). As a DM, you have to have a way for the character to get his arm back, and you have to be open to the player's ideas for how to do so, even if they are different than yours. The reason to introduce the problem has to be to allow the player the satisfaction of overcoming it.

 

[adam_antio]

Ah, I was thinking about some levels of paladin or ranger or even cleric to better represent his devotion in fighting undead! Let's see...

Edit: ooooh alter self is a good catch!

Well, if this player managed to become a Lich at level 6, I'm confident he will find a way tl get his arms back!

 

[MG.0]

Well, the means to become a Lich are not really bound by level. However, to avoid turning in to a Demilich he needs to routenely cast Imprisonment, a 9th level spell, so yes, most Liches are at least 17th level spellcasters.

Where are the means to become a lich spelled out anywhere in 5th Edition?

Even if it was, which I'm pretty sure it is not, in my game that would just get you transitioned to NPC status. Hope you have another character handy. I might allow the player to retain control of their new form IF (and that is a big if) it was clear that the change was temporary and they were working actively to undo it.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I thought I read somewhere that magical beasts like dragons count as magic weapons?

I would suggest using a "dragon variant" of the disarm rules. Perhaps rather than bite his hands off, the dragon maims his hands to the degree that he cant cast spells until healed. I would treat this as some kind of lasting injury under the optional injury rules. This would be a special dragon attack, not something the players could ordinarily do.

 

[MG.0]

I would suggest using the disarm rules.

*snicker*

 

[Sage Genesis]

You know what's weird?

Silver Dragon's attacks don't count as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming resistances. Ok, perhaps, fine. That wasn't the weird bit. But they also don't count as silver weapons for the purpose of overcoming resistances. Yeah. Think about that.


*ahem* Anyway, I'd also suggest using the innate spellcasting option. This dragon is going to need all the help it can. I also think that the MM stats weren't made to be a reality-simulator but rather to provide numbers to make a fight (or other action-adventure scenario) against PCs run smoothly. Liches were never supposed to be part of that equation. So, you can afford to play a little loose with the rules. If this specific individual dragon has fought undead for decades, then surely this specific individual dragon has some tools or tricks at its disposal. Just like Paladins aren't your average humanoid, this silver dragon doesn't have to be your average lizard.