D&D 5E Campaign Settings 5e- Why I want to Forget the Realms

[Remathilis]

FLAG ON THE PLAY!

except your analogy make elminister the equivalent of coulson and sky... the protagonists of the story... In my home game the PCs are playing skye, or Coulson, or elminister, not having them do the heavy lifting in the background

No, it makes him the equivalent of SHIELD (or the Men In Black, or any other vague-yet-menacing government agency) whose job it quietly handle threats off camera that don't affect the protagonist.

Elminster: Congradulations Heroes, you've stopped the Cults of Elemental Evil. The world owes you a great deal of thanks.
PCs: Where were you when we were crushing Imix and Ogremoch?
Elminster: While you were handling that, I was organizing a resistance movement in Phlan, aiding in the exposure of a traitor in Cormyr's court, investigating the Cult of the Dragon, and I had a nice spot of tea with the Simbul, all events well handled while you were doing your part here in Red Larch. Any other questions?

 

[Remathilis]

But, really, think of it like comic books. Elminster is totally Superman. And Drizzt is Batman, all broody and dark and confined to his own little corner. They can do some amazing things. But it's not like they're involved in every single world-spanning plot or story that threatens to destroy the world. Yeah, they're in the crossovers. But there's still lots of room for other heroes to save the day all on their own with no other heroes helping or even realizing. Sometimes even the Doom Patrol saves the world.

This is almost exactly my point: Superman and Batman can't stop everything. You need Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, etc, even IF Superman could beat every member of their rogue's gallery by himself. Superman can't handle it all by himself. Even the JLA can't, you need the Teen Titans or Justice Society or even the Suicide Squad to handle the things Superman can't, even if he's completely capable of doing so.

 

[Remathilis]

Fair enough. But, if Tiamat is going to set up shop in Greyhawk, or Demogorgon is going to set off what is effectively a massive nuclear attack wiping out 3/4 of the continent, you'd think they might get involved.

Isn't that basically what happened in the Greyhawk Wars? During Die Vecna, Die?

I think the major difference is that the we look at the Circle of Eight as a Neutral entity; they are there to keep the balance (and therefore only get involved in the most Oerth-shaking moments, like the above) while Elminster is decisively Good and therefore we think he should be more involved (only thing for evil to flourish is good men to do nothing). Still, its pretty ironic that the world with an EVIL DEMIGOD living on it is the one free of "epic powers" complaints...

 

[I'm A Banana]

Whose to say he's not involved in a less direct manner?
...
Elminster's actions have to be like that, else he's going to trigger a Realmsian MAD event from every wizard powerful enough to teleport AND cast meteor swarm.

If something major happens and your asking "Where was Elminister?", chances are he did his job well...

Sure, that is kind of the heart of the "PC Disempowerment" complaint, though. It can be kind of a catch-22 where in any sufficiently world-shaking plot you have to pick one of the following:

• The uber-NPC's are not active, which can strain credulity
• The uber-NPC's are VERY active, which means they do the adventure for you, or the adventure is about being their support crew, or something.
• The uber-NPC's are distantly active, which means they'll only come in and save the day if you fail, and then maybe scold you for failing, but they won't actually LET the world be shaken.

Gods are always very active through their agents, but are limited in that they typically cannot become VERY active, personally - if the agents fail, the gods are then powerless to do much about it.

Uber-NPC's, though, don't have agents, they've got a history of being VERY active, and if they're not now, it's clear that they COULD be, if things got bad enough.

Again, hasn't been a real problem for me personally (and I have no problem with saying "Elminster? Who is that? You must have read too many stories, boy!"), but I get the complaint, and I understand that it can be a hiccup for some groups that makes the Realms not their favorite place to be. Not that there's not ways to solve it, o'course, but those ways might not work for all groups.

But, really, think of it like comic books.

One of the reasons I hate the "unified universe" of a lot of superhero comics! "Oh, Daredevil, you're a great lawyer/beatemupguy/vigilante/crime fighter, but you know that Spiderman character is just a few blocks away, and also there's this school of trans-dimensional mutants a few hours' drive from here and also a literal god and a super-genius and a super-soldier who all made friends with some spies and an angry green metaphor. So, you know, keep punching people in your ZIP code, and if things get too weird, know that there's a lot of other people who will basically do what you can't! I mean, literally hundreds of evil plots to control or destroy the world are thwarted every year by these people, and do you ever wonder why we have so many megolomaniacal sociopaths in this world, I mean you'd think that we'd have some sort of Super Therapist by now who could help them confront their true emotional issues and become better people for it, but I suppose super powers are only about punching things and not about feelings...."

Not really liking super hero comics is one of the many ways in which I am bad nerd.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

It should also be noted that news does not travel fast in the realms. It's a huge place that lacks phones and stuff. If Tiamat is rising in the south Drizzt may just not know about it, as the area he is in is not getting harassed by dragon cultists. Same with Elminster. Who does not even live in the Sword Coast.

 

[Mephista]

Sure, that is kind of the heart of the "PC Disempowerment" complaint, though. It can be kind of a catch-22 where in any sufficiently world-shaking plot you have to pick one of the following:

• The uber-NPC's are not active, which can strain credulity
• The uber-NPC's are VERY active, which means they do the adventure for you, or the adventure is about being their support crew, or something.
• The uber-NPC's are distantly active, which means they'll only come in and save the day if you fail, and then maybe scold you for failing, but they won't actually LET the world be shaken.

Or the uber-NPCs are involved in Realms-shattering disasters of their own. Events such as fighting suddenly reactive hoards of orcs and drow in the frozen north (lastest collection of Drizz't novels), wandering around and keeping the Weave from fraying and falling apart by anchoring it to major wards (Elminster in the beginning of the Herald novel), keeping Cormyr from being overrun by Shaddover agents and heading to visit the dragonborn lands (Brimstone Angels novels), readapting to the world after being held captive by an archdevil for a century (Everis Cale), or keeping Tiamat from taking over the place (Minsc and Boo).

The uber-NPCs are kinda busy, which begs the question - why the hells are there constantly such huge events happening? That's the part that stretches my incredibility.

Though, from the sounds of it, uber-NPCs -are- getting involved in some of the plots. Drizz't is coming on board for Rage of Demons, we had Minsc and Boo with Tyranny of Dragons. We won't see them on the TT, but they're around in the other mediums. I understand that the next couple novels released are touching on the Rage of Dragons storyline as well, so that's more of the uber-NPCs getting involved in some way, if each with their own angle.

 

[Remathilis]

One of the reasons I hate the "unified universe" of a lot of superhero comics! "Oh, Daredevil, you're a great lawyer/beatemupguy/vigilante/crime fighter, but you know that Spiderman character is just a few blocks away, and also there's this school of trans-dimensional mutants a few hours' drive from here and also a literal god and a super-genius and a super-soldier who all made friends with some spies and an angry green metaphor. So, you know, keep punching people in your ZIP code, and if things get too weird, know that there's a lot of other people who will basically do what you can't! I mean, literally hundreds of evil plots to control or destroy the world are thwarted every year by these people, and do you ever wonder why we have so many megolomaniacal sociopaths in this world, I mean you'd think that we'd have some sort of Super Therapist by now who could help them confront their true emotional issues and become better people for it, but I suppose super powers are only about punching things and not about feelings...."

Its back to the "Superman can't be everywhere doing everything" problem.

Really though, its the problem I have with ANY RPG setting that has associated media with it: why aren't the Heroes doing this and not you? I had this problem in Star Wars alot; in the post RotJ era game I played in; there was 0 reasons why Luke, Han, Leia and company needed our PCs to do anything. If a new Sith Lord, or a new Imperial Super Weapon (the Emperor had like 40 of them) or a new galactic threat showed up, its going to be the Heroes of the Galaxy that investigate, not 4 dudes in a broken down spacecraft.

Lather, rinse, repeat. DC/Marvel RPG? Send in Hulk and Superman. Middle Earth? Frodo's got the ring, so go fight orcs somewhere off camera. Dragonlance? The Heroes of the Lance got this one. Adventure's in Time & Space? The Doctor will solve the problem (unless you're running a Torchwood: Children of Earth style spinoff). Even Greek Myth is loaded up with Avengers-like Superteams (the Argonauts!) that means you won't be shaking Mt. Olympus anytime soon!

So you gotta roll if you want to use those "shared" settings. You gotta assume Elminster, Superman, the Doctor, Luke Skywalker, or Hercules isn't going to be able to save your ass because they're too busy fighting Manshoon, Darkseid, Davros, Yuuzhan Vong, or the Nemean Lion. Yeah, that means your more Daredevil than Thor, but that's the price for such settings.

 

[cmad1977]

I just remove all NPC's like that anyways. Problem solved.
I pay no attention to Realms lore or canon. Problem solved.

All I do is use the maps and geography, some of the political structures and gods. I guess I use less the Forgotten Realms and more the Kingsrule Realms.

 

[the Jester]

1. Why was FR chosen as the default? I understand that 5e had a lot of feedback, so is this the most popular campaign setting in general?

Yes, it is... and in my opinion, that's largely due to the HUGE push that FR has received in every edition since 1e. Other settings might be equally popular if treated with respect and actually invested in (in terms of design resources).

2. This is more of a question, perhaps, to enlighten me- why do I hate FR so much? I love different campaign settings. Spelljammer and Planescape to connect them, home-brew, Greyhawk, Eberron, Krynn, Al-Qadim/Kara-Tur (yes, I know that they may be considered "part" of FR, but they are standalone), and so on. But ever since FR came out, I disliked everything about it. I hated Elminster. I hated the mythos and the world. I hated, hated, hated Drizzt.

Because it's derivative and unoriginal, and has a strong "everything and the kitchen sink" aesthetic? Because it stole the World of Greyhawk's stuff at a time when the in-house leadership had a mad-on for Gygax? Because it's full of Mary Sue npcs and constant reboots and disrespects its own continuity? Just some guesses. I don't know, but I hate the FR, too.

 

[MoonSong]

Sure, that is kind of the heart of the "PC Disempowerment" complaint, though. It can be kind of a catch-22 where in any sufficiently world-shaking plot you have to pick one of the following:

• The uber-NPC's are not active, which can strain credulity
• The uber-NPC's are VERY active, which means they do the adventure for you, or the adventure is about being their support crew, or something.
• The uber-NPC's are distantly active, which means they'll only come in and save the day if you fail, and then maybe scold you for failing, but they won't actually LET the world be shaken.

Gods are always very active through their agents, but are limited in that they typically cannot become VERY active, personally - if the agents fail, the gods are then powerless to do much about it.

Uber-NPC's, though, don't have agents, they've got a history of being VERY active, and if they're not now, it's clear that they COULD be, if things got bad enough.

Again, hasn't been a real problem for me personally (and I have no problem with saying "Elminster? Who is that? You must have read too many stories, boy!"), but I get the complaint, and I understand that it can be a hiccup for some groups that makes the Realms not their favorite place to be. Not that there's not ways to solve it, o'course, but those ways might not work for all groups.



One of the reasons I hate the "unified universe" of a lot of superhero comics! "Oh, Daredevil, you're a great lawyer/beatemupguy/vigilante/crime fighter, but you know that Spiderman character is just a few blocks away, and also there's this school of trans-dimensional mutants a few hours' drive from here and also a literal god and a super-genius and a super-soldier who all made friends with some spies and an angry green metaphor. So, you know, keep punching people in your ZIP code, and if things get too weird, know that there's a lot of other people who will basically do what you can't! I mean, literally hundreds of evil plots to control or destroy the world are thwarted every year by these people, and do you ever wonder why we have so many megolomaniacal sociopaths in this world, I mean you'd think that we'd have some sort of Super Therapist by now who could help them confront their true emotional issues and become better people for it, but I suppose super powers are only about punching things and not about feelings...."

Not really liking super hero comics is one of the many ways in which I am bad nerd.

I've got another alternative. The uber NPCs are actively involved in the realms shattering event, and they fail! Whatever new menace slaughters elminster in front of the PC's eyes. You know, juts to show what the stakes are and how this time there's no one to solve this is you fail. Just you know, no pressure....