D&D 5E The word ‘Race’

[MG.0]

D&D isn't trying to be racist, but I think they're attempting to overlook problems that have existed for decades in the game and centuries in the lore.

...[SNIP]...

Again, I don't think D&D is trying to be racist. But I do think they're ignoring some of the lingering racist elements in the lore their works are based on.

I think that's a load of crap.

Since you are advocating that elves, dwarves, etc all get the same racial stats, then surely orcs, trolls, ogres, giants, dragons, and beholders should have the same stats too. We wouldn't want to be unintentionally racist to players who want to play as a nonstandard race.

So in the end we can have a nice homogenous bunch of players attacking a homogenous group of monsters. Oops, that could offend people who identify with one of the monster races so we'd better drop the term monster. But now the players are attacking beings indistinguishable from themselves, so we should just ban combat while we're at it.

DM: You are standing in a nondescript area surrounded by beings identical to you. Everyone is happy and not being oppressed in the slightest.
Players: We do nothing. Everything is great.
DM: Another successful session! You've reached level 2.
Players: Wait, aren't we superior to everyone now?
DM: CRAP

 

[Sunseeker]

I think that's a load of crap.

That's your perogative. I'm not posting here to attempt to change your mind. I was simply posting my POV on the subject.

Since you are advocating that elves, dwarves, etc all get the same racial stats, then surely orcs, trolls, ogres, giants, dragons, and beholders should have the same stats too. We wouldn't want to be unitentionally racist to players who want to play as a nonstandard race.

You're going to have to try harder than that. Since I said nothing of the sort. Since the rest of your post is based on this absurd falseism, I'm not going to address it.

 

[MG.0]

You're going to have to try harder than that. Since I said nothing of the sort. Since the rest of your post is based on this absurd falseism, I'm not going to address it.

That is what you said.


Quote: "Personally we could remove racial modifiers entirely and leave "racial differentiation" entirely in the hands of special features."

 

[Mistwell]

Based on his activity statistics, I don't even see that he's been online since the 24th. That's not an attack on potentially forum bombing, just to say I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest one way or the other, since I don't see he's posted on anything at all since.

I realize that may have come across differently than I intended. I didn't mean "This is a guy who bombs forums intentionally". I meant "This guy is like Frank Rock, Monster Hunter". See his list of hobbies.

 

[Sunseeker]

That is what you said.

No, it is not. I said we could remove racial modifiers, not that we should. I said we could replace what we are attempting to represent through physical scores with various resistances, advantages or other features and achieve a better result.

If you think this would "homogonize" the races, then I believe what you are seeing is that D&Ds races lack distinction and are poorly developed. Racial modifiers only cover this up, not alleviate the problem.

 

[MG.0]

No, it is not. I said we could remove racial modifiers, not that we should.

"Could" - meaning you do not advocate the idea? You are just throwing out random ideas with no notion that they are good or bad?

I said we could replace what we are attempting to represent through physical scores with various resistances, advantages or other features and achieve a better result.

So......again you may as well just remove stats altogether. I mean they serve no purpose other than to enable distinctiveness, and it seems to be that very distinctiveness that is causing all this discussion. A beholder can have the same stats as a human and just have special features. But what are features except differences by another name?

If you think this would "homogonize" the races, then I believe what you are seeing is that D&Ds races lack distinction and are poorly developed. Racial modifiers only cover this up, not alleviate the problem.

No, modifiers provide a basis of distinction for other differences to build upon.

 

[Sunseeker]

"Could" - meaning you do not advocate the idea? You are just throwing out random ideas with no notion that they are good or bad?

"Good" or "bad" is subjective. Clearly you disagree with my idea and therefore you find it bad. The fact that you don't like it does not make it an objective truth that anything I said is bad, or even that I like it makes it good.

So......again you may as well just remove stats altogether. I mean they serve no purpose other than to enable distinctiveness, and it seems to be that very distinctiveness that is causing all this discussion. A beholder can have the same stats as a human and just have special features. But what are features except differences by another name?

If you're not going to respond to what I wrote and just make up these straw men I really don't see a possible discussion here.

We could remove the 6 base stats entirely. Many solid RPGs don't have them and their characters are served just fine with representing their features, their abilities and so forth in other manners.

No, modifiers provide a basis of distinction for other differences to build upon.

Again, this is entirely your opinion, which I have already stated you are welcome to keep. But since I don't see us actually having a discussion here I'm not going to respond to your comments further.

 

[Uller]

Pretty irrelevant.

...

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Is it? That's a fantastic way to convince someone...tell them their argument is irrelevant.

One word: Tanari. How'd that work for removing barriers? Did it remove stigmas or unnecessarily reinforce them.

A lot of us are tired of being told that we have to change because our sensibilities make other people unhappy. I'm not the one who is unhappy. I'm not hurting anyone. My use of elves and dwarves, etc and the word race (and racial modifiers) are not harming anyone. It's not apathy. I care. I care very much. I'm tired of constantly being turned into a villain for living my life the way I want.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Is it? That's a fantastic way to convince someone...tell them their argument is irrelevant.

Was bringing up ancestral D&D issues supposed to somehow magically absolve D&D of this specific issue?

One word: Tanari. How'd that work for removing barriers? Did it remove stigmas or unnecessarily reinforce them.

Apples and oranges, really. Though to your question, I'm sure some kids got to play D&D that otherwise wouldn't have because they could say "See, it's not satanic like that movie, it doesn't have demons in it."

A lot of us are tired of being told that we have to change because our sensibilities make other people unhappy. I'm not the one who is unhappy. I'm not hurting anyone. My use of elves and dwarves, etc and the word race (and racial modifiers) are not harming anyone. It's not apathy. I care. I care very much. I'm tired of constantly being turned into a villain for living my life the way I want.

Your defensiveness is misplaced. No one is turning you into a villain or making you change. A simple word puts some people off the game who would otherwise gladly play it. Do you want more people to play the game? Would it do you any harm to change the word? Then you shouldn't object to the the idea of changing that word - it'd be doing good things, and not hurting anybody.

 

[Hussar]

Actually I'd say Tanar'ri is a great example. It certainly gained traction. To the point where books even now use the term to differentiate between different inhabitants of the abyss.