You can now get a citation for making direct eye contact with a cop

[gamerprinter]

I think it is more about the US's relationship with authority and republicanism.

I seriously don't think Republicanism has anything to do with it. There's an 18th century book written by a Frenchman regarding his experience in America (I don't know the book nor author, but saw it spoken of in a documentary), and in it he notes visiting a restaurant and everyone calling the waiter "sir", even though the waiter was obviously not knighted (the author considered it very funny to call a waiter, sir). He noted all Americans used "sir". I don't think its a relationship with authority as much as a term of respect to any person you don't really know and having some dealing with. On the other hand, since we don't have knights in the US, nobody is given the title "sir" before there name.

 

[tomBitonti]

My sense is that, towards the south of the USA, "Sir" is often used simply to be polite. Often, but not always, because it also provides a leg for a lot of nuance.

What I wonder about is what justification is required for you to be followed by the police?

And, do cases of technical violations ever rise from being legally justified to being unjustified? When does extra scrutiny turn into harassment?

Thx!

TomB

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

What I wonder about is what justification is required for you to be followed by the police?

It is a pretty low threshold- a simple technical violation will do it. I know a lot of people who are or were patrol/traffic cops, and almost all of them told me the same thing: if you follow any vehicle long enough, you will see something sufficient to warrant a stop.

And, do cases of technical violations ever rise from being legally justified to being unjustified? When does extra scrutiny turn into harassment?

Yes, and the line between when enforcement becomes harassment depends on the trier of fact in the lawsuit.

 

[Morrus]

My sense is that, towards the south of the USA, "Sir" is often used simply to be polite.

That is the impression I got. That's why it stands out so much to a visitor.

 

[Janx]

In the US, referring to a cop as "sir" or "officer" is pretty typical, no matter your skin color.

That and I think I've heard it more in some regions or with some demographics.

Out east, NJ area, I've seen it used in Kevin's Smiths films. Like maybe they talk that way even to each other.

In TX, I've seen teens/young men who are trying to be formal when talking to an older person (like their parents raised them old fashioned like).


For the guy in the story, it's a smart play to be as polite and respectful as he can. Though he shouldn't have to be so worried, fact is, the only one he can control on that interaction is himself and how he handled it.

What I find dumb is that after the Sandra Bland incident, every cop should have been briefed that you do not pull a black person over for a piddling traffic violation, you keep your cool, and you make sure you have an excellent reason for pulling them over. Lawyers are looking for mistakes like that cop to give them a hook to bankrupt a municipality over this racist crap.

 

[Lhorgrim]

I hesitate to get involved in this thread because I don't want people to think I'm trying to defend all law enforcement. Bad cops need to be held accountable for their actions. If that means criminal charges then that is what should happen. If they need to be fired, then "offer them the opportunity to excel elsewhere". I just retired as a police officer, and I can tell you that I would have left the job sooner if I could have. My morale was pretty low, and stuff like the assumption by some that all cops are racist and/or corrupt really ground me down.
In 22 years I never shot anybody, never TASERed anybody, and pepper sprayed one drunk. I did point my firearm at a few people and put the TASER laser dot on a few as well and I had to use physical force to make some arrests. Those were situations where my training, the law, my "response to resistance" policy and common sense supported my actions.
I can try to answer some questions from a patrol officer's perspective, but I can't speak for the people involved.

As far as following someone because of prolonged eye contact? Only if they looked like they might be intoxicated or in distress. I don't know how to best describe it, but if you looked at me in my cruiser and looked worried or pleading I might look for a reason to stop you to make sure you were OK. I stopped several cars over the years for minor violations that turned out to be "rolling domestics", but in all of those situations it was a female that was making eye contact with me. A few times it was people who were lost and were afraid to flag me down and ask for directions. In all of those stops though, my approach was to walk up to the car and ask if everything was OK. I didn't ask for ID or anything, and the few times where there wasn't a more serious situation I gave a verbal warning for the stop and got the people going again ASAP. I should note that my agency runs a plate on every stop so I know if the vehicle is stolen or has warrants before the actual traffic stop. This also served to document our stops along with our dash cams.
We were just getting body cams as I retired. I would have loved to have had one to go along with my dash cam. My dash cam saved me from several false complaints, and a body cam would have been great insurance, as long as it worked. The test and evaluation versions we tried often didn't have enough storage or battery life, and some of them were difficult to activate under stress. I hope the ones they got work well.

 

[Janx]

I seriously don't think Republicanism has anything to do with it. There's an 18th century book written by a Frenchman regarding his experience in America (I don't know the book nor author, but saw it spoken of in a documentary), and in it he notes visiting a restaurant and everyone calling the waiter "sir", even though the waiter was obviously not knighted (the author considered it very funny to call a waiter, sir). He noted all Americans used "sir". I don't think its a relationship with authority as much as a term of respect to any person you don't really know and having some dealing with. On the other hand, since we don't have knights in the US, nobody is given the title "sir" before there name.

On a somewhat related note, I just had a conversation with somebody about this woman they knew who dressed very very male like and was at some store and got offended when the cashier called her "sir"

We are approaching a point in society where it's OK for gender lines to be blurry, and our polite/formal language collides because the speaker could not identify the gender correctly and didn't know to avoid it.

It's possible then that the PC crowd will make us stop using ma'am and sir so as not to offend anybody.

 

[gamerprinter]

It's possible then that the PC crowd will make us stop using ma'am and sir so as not to offend anybody.

Well despite being conscientious of any person's race or gender, and make every effort to be polite, even in published works - that's just a personal creed. That said, I have little regard for the PC crowd and the entire PC practice. I see them with little difference than censors, and I'm not an advocate for censorship.

 

[Lhorgrim]

What I find dumb is that after the Sandra Bland incident, every cop should have been briefed that you do not pull a black person over for a piddling traffic violation, you keep your cool, and you make sure you have an excellent reason for pulling them over. Lawyers are looking for mistakes like that cop to give them a hook to bankrupt a municipality over this racist crap.

This kind of stuff drove me crazy when I was working. Most of the time I did not know the race of the person I was pulling over. I always tried to be professional, even when I was accused of profiling because I pulled a guy over at 0 dark 30 for failing to dim his high beams when we drove past each other. I gave him a written warning while he accused me of being racist. He wanted to know why I stopped him when there were drunks out on the roads and real crimes happening.
Failure to dim is often an indicator of impaired driving, but what good would it do to try to explain that to someone who is convinced they got pulled over for driving while black?

I always called people sir or ma'am on a stop. It may be a regional thing, but I just saw it as being courteous and professional.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I'll take What is a Police State for $100, Alec.