D&D 5E Out of the Abyss - No Drizzt afterall?

[cmad1977]

Basically drizzt is no where in any adventure I've seen so as usual this is non existent 'problem'.

 

[Jester David]

But that he is NOT everywhere. He barely gets a mention outside of his novels. If you think he's everywhere that is more your perception than reality. I'm guessing the word Drizzt and references to him and his deeds occupy less than 0.0001% of all non-novel D&D products.

Not really.

I did half the math a little while back:

There's something close to 320 Forgotten Realms novels. 28 feature Drizzt and and maybe a dozen feature Elminster. That's 12.5%. Literally 87.5% of the Realms has nothing to do with those characters.

From:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...Realms/page3&p=6681887&viewfull=1#post6681887

There's also 181 Forgotten Realms accessories for 2e/3e and 5 for 4e. Of those a dozen mention Drizzt. Plus the 3 adventure paths, only one mentions Drizzt. So 93.1% don't mention him.

So 92.1% of the Forgotten Realm products do not mention Drizzt. But that's still 7.9% that do. Which is larger than the 0.0001% you suggest. But pretty darn small of a percentage.

 

[Henry]

Are we really having the discussion of whether Drizzt & Elminster's presence is measured in drams or teaspoons? He's really not referenced as much as people perceive it, no matter how it's defined. The only adventures i've ever seen where the big E was referenced in a way he couldn't be removed was the Time of Troubles modules - fortunately they havent made that mistake again.

 

[JeffB]

the Time of Troubles modules - fortunately they havent made that mistake again.

Interstingly, IMO- ROD/OOTA sounds alot like The Time of Troubles but set in the Underdark. Hairbrained scheme by one of their owne kind unleashes horrendous destruction by immortals upon the prime and it's mortal inhabitants.

Demon Lords=Gods
Derro,Drow, Duergar, Svirneblin= Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Halflings
Underdark=Toril's surface
Bad Novels all around

 

[Evandis]

Some of you just aren't getting it.

There is a difference between liking/hating Drizzt the character and getting sick of seeing him at your table every single adventure in some clone form or blatant rip-off that doesn't even change the name. So YOU who have defended Drizzt have not seen that have substance and those who are seeing it a lot have no substance to our position? That is absurd. Your experience appears to be enough substance but ours does not?

I don't hate Drizzt. I hate having to read and incorporate the guy every time we play. That is not interesting or entertaining to me. I want to see different characters with different backgrounds that react differently. Because as a DM that is the side of the story I am experiencing for the first time with the same excitement and fervor that the players have as I reveal my story.

I HAVE seen it a lot. It HAS become boring and annoying to see it, there is little fun in it at this point. That doesn't mean I hate Drizzt. It means I hate him being in so many of my campaigns. I also hate Drozzt Do'urden his twin brother with an identical background story as found in RAS novels.

My position has plenty of substance, and if it doesn't, neither does yours, because you are trying to dictate what my personal experiences are based on yours, because you were at my table, right? No.

The character is fine, I couldn't care less how many core rulebooks he shows up in, or novels. I am sick of the players who just have so little creativity that they have to directly rip off someone elses concept. Heck comments were even made in the Acquisitions Incorporate at PAX Prime this year about how he never loses. Including Drizzt into an adventure CAN end up leading to overload of him, he can become a version of the DMNPC that saves the day, because we are not the writers of the adventure. "Go do this task and meet back up with me in which I will regale you with what I have done while you were gone and how it is so much more awesome."

 

[Hussar]

And you have an unmatched ability to discern other's qualities! Much appreciated.

That said, I have often observed that the Drizz't supporters' good humor is only matched by their sense of self awareness.

Funny thing is, i've never even read a Salvatore book. Not my thing. I don't go in for YA Fantasy. So, I really have no dog in this race. I just find it hilarious that someone would go to the lengths that some do to decry how Drizz't is being over used, is terribly written, is a pox on the genre (pick any or all of the above) when the reality is, Drizz't novels are apparently mostly self contained and have little or nothing to do with the FR setting, is almost never mentioned in any tabletop D&D product and the clone thing was probably a problem once, maybe twice at any given table over how many years.

But, sure, keep banging that drum and fighting the good fight.

 

[Daern]

Dunno if its been said already, but there's totally an opportunity for an angry anti drow ranger DM to have Drizzt in the campaign and have him end ignominiously.
Change the name of the Spore Drow from the opening jail scene and you have a tragic shell of a former hero, wandering in a daze before eventually being consumed by the terrors of the dark.
It could be full of pathos or funny or both.
(Full disclosure, I have a player who tends toward Drizzt clones as well.)

 

[Hussar]

Some of you just aren't getting it.

There is a difference between liking/hating Drizzt the character and getting sick of seeing him at your table every single adventure in some clone form or blatant rip-off that doesn't even change the name. So YOU who have defended Drizzt have not seen that have substance and those who are seeing it a lot have no substance to our position? That is absurd. Your experience appears to be enough substance but ours does not?

I don't hate Drizzt. I hate having to read and incorporate the guy every time we play. That is not interesting or entertaining to me. I want to see different characters with different backgrounds that react differently. Because as a DM that is the side of the story I am experiencing for the first time with the same excitement and fervor that the players have as I reveal my story.

I HAVE seen it a lot. It HAS become boring and annoying to see it, there is little fun in it at this point. That doesn't mean I hate Drizzt. It means I hate him being in so many of my campaigns. I also hate Drozzt Do'urden his twin brother with an identical background story as found in RAS novels.

My position has plenty of substance, and if it doesn't, neither does yours, because you are trying to dictate what my personal experiences are based on yours, because you were at my table, right? No.

The character is fine, I couldn't care less how many core rulebooks he shows up in, or novels. I am sick of the players who just have so little creativity that they have to directly rip off someone elses concept. Heck comments were even made in the Acquisitions Incorporate at PAX Prime this year about how he never loses. Including Drizzt into an adventure CAN end up leading to overload of him, he can become a version of the DMNPC that saves the day, because we are not the writers of the adventure. "Go do this task and meet back up with me in which I will regale you with what I have done while you were gone and how it is so much more awesome."

You have multiple players who are bringing up a Drizz't clone in every single adventure? Every time?

Or is it just "that guy" who keeps doing the same thing over and over?

Why do you have to include him in any adventure? HE DOESN'T APPEAR IN ANY WOTC ADVENTURE AS AN NPC. I think he's obliquely referenced in a random encounter table in OoTA. That's it. A nice little Easter egg. Nothing more.

Now, if you have a group where, every time a new campaign comes up, a different player tries to play Drizz't, then, sure, I can see the issue. But, at the end of the day, I'm thinking this is a player issue more than a Drizz't one.

 

[Evandis]

You have multiple players who are bringing up a Drizz't clone in every single adventure? Every time?

Or is it just "that guy" who keeps doing the same thing over and over?

Why do you have to include him in any adventure? HE DOESN'T APPEAR IN ANY WOTC ADVENTURE AS AN NPC. I think he's obliquely referenced in a random encounter table in OoTA. That's it. A nice little Easter egg. Nothing more.

Now, if you have a group where, every time a new campaign comes up, a different player tries to play Drizz't, then, sure, I can see the issue. But, at the end of the day, I'm thinking this is a player issue more than a Drizz't one.

Obviously it's not every single adventure, but it is frequent enough to get sickening, and that's about as subjective of a position as it comes. I AM sick of it and I have every right to be.

The bolded section is wrong. It's BOTH the players and Drizzt. The players are shoving Drizzt down my throat, therefore I am sick of Drizzt. If they were shoving Elminster down my throat, then Drizzt would not be the problem.

The point that people in this post seem to conveniently glaze over is if my position of being sick of Drizzt is wrong, so is their position that they are not sick of Drizzt.

You all can argue until you're blue in the face, but to like or to not like Drizzt is opinion and opinion cannot be argued for or against as fact. You all need to just accept that others don't agree with you and that doesn't make them right or wrong. It makes them an individual person who is entitled to feel any way they want.

 

[Hussar]

Obviously it's not every single adventure, but it is frequent enough to get sickening, and that's about as subjective of a position as it comes. I AM sick of it and I have every right to be.

The bolded section is wrong. It's BOTH the players and Drizzt. The players are shoving Drizzt down my throat, therefore I am sick of Drizzt. If they were shoving Elminster down my throat, then Drizzt would not be the problem.

The point that people in this post seem to conveniently glaze over is if my position of being sick of Drizzt is wrong, so is their position that they are not sick of Drizzt.

You all can argue until you're blue in the face, but to like or to not like Drizzt is opinion and opinion cannot be argued for or against as fact. You all need to just accept that others don't agree with you and that doesn't make them right or wrong. It makes them an individual person who is entitled to feel any way they want.

I think you're missing the argument here. The issue's not really whether or not someone is sick of Drizz't. I can't argue with you about that. It's just true. The issue is whether or not WotC is forcing Drizz't into the game.

Your issue isn't with Drizz't or WotC, it's with your players. Like you say, it just happens to be Drizz't that they've latched onto. It could be anything. This is a player issue though, which, honestly, I'm not commenting on at all. Heck, you're not even saying that Drizz't is a bad thing. It's the players shoving a single concept down your throat. Totally fair.

My issue is with comments like [MENTION=26510]SAN[/MENTION]crosanct talking about Drizz't appearing all over the Forgotten Realms material coming from WOTC. Or [MENTION=88539]LowKey[/MENTION] here talking about how badly written the novels are and how anyone with "real" taste wouldn't be reading them. That's what I'm arguing against.

You? You're groovy. You just need to have a conversation with your players and explain that there are other options out there. Hopefully this is a problem that will pass.