Nebulous
Legend
Yeah, why don't you start that thread and i'd be happy to pitch in. I've been thinking about that anyway, strategizing from a DM point of view to counter magic-wielding PCs.
D&D 5E Princes of the Apocalypse campaign recaps
Yeah, why don't you start that thread and i'd be happy to pitch in. I've been thinking about that anyway, strategizing from a DM point of view to counter magic-wielding PCs.
Creamsteak
Explorer
That is definitely one of the plot holes in the book. It's handled in a very simple game-ist way where the heroes are basically choosing their final boss battle by killing someone last.
As you and I are both running with a 5th cult (mine being a secret to even the leaders of the cults) that raises the possibility that the prophets themselves are mislead. That's what I'm going with. I'm probably going to map out multiple outcomes depending on what the characters can possibly do.
The campaign books default assumption is that all 4 cult leaders are squashed and one elemental prince enters our world but is then destroyed. The four elemental nodes are shut down. The weapons are used to shut down all the nodes. More than likely the elemental prince that is killed is just set back for some time (do elementals die if killed on the material plane? I didn't think so, but I am uncertain). This is actually a pretty neutral ending. The characters have stopped the cults and the eye "for now". They've set back the individual elemental princes goals "for now". Sure, the valley is saved, but the entire adventure didn't change the game world. You are heroes, certainly, but what came of it?
My likely "bad ending" would actually require that all four princes are summoned and destroyed on the material plane. That was the Eye's plan all along. The cultists summon their respective princes who are in direct opposition and go to war. Since the cults have been pitted against each other and the princes are always destined to go to war with each other, the original plan was to weaken all of them. Then the double agents from the greater cult turn on their respective wounded masters with artifacts (the motes in my game) designed to steal their power. That power would then be used to bring something out of the eye for a real world ending problem. Obviously the players in my game have messed up this plan already by acquiring the motes, killing a prophet, and setting back (and unbalancing) the whole plan. However...
The "good ending" in my head at least at the moment is that if the players intentionally summon and destroy each of these elemental princes, use the motes for their own purposes (the motes are bound to one of the PCs right now), they can purify the weapons that were granted to them (uncursing them, granting new powers) and eventually mount an attack on the creature behind the Elder Elemental Eye. Big ideas. No idea if I'll ever get to that point. Doing this would "actually" change the game world somehow. No, "We'll get you next time batman."
Nebulous
Legend
And speaking of cutting out flak, I admit I have not read every word of the later chapters. At first blush, it seems like each elemental node, the Howling Caves, Black Geode, The Plunging Torrents and the Weeping Colossus might be overkill. OR, maybe they're just too big. I don't think all of these encounters are necessary, nor is it necessary for the PCs to hit every haunted keep, every Temple, every node. There's got to be a logical way to eradicate a few in whatever order they want then skip to the end. Which will probably be the Weeping Colossus because that's a badass map 
Well all the maps are pretty cool. I still say, if they had put out high quality map packs for this i'd probably have shelled out another $90 for it.
Well all the maps are pretty cool. I still say, if they had put out high quality map packs for this i'd probably have shelled out another $90 for it.
Nebulous
Legend
I'm pretty sure we're on the same page as far as the basic structure of our campaign. My fifth cult might not be as secret as yours, but its ulterior motives are probably unknown even to the Prophets. I like the idea of the genasi being the leaders. As I have an air genasi in our party, that would make an interesting temptation.
I tend to keep forgetting about the significance of the four elemental weapons, and they're a HUGE part of the campaign, not just "magic weapons to kill stuff". In that respect, a balls to the wall fight with Queen Aerisi, that is won by the skin of their teeth and rewarding them with Windvane might be better than her escaping. It will also give them a much greater sense of "hell yeah, we can DO this!"
Nebulous
Legend
Since we're introducing the 5th cult and the Elemental Eye, we might as well just rewrite the ending to better incorporate it, and we might as well just liberally steal from Cthulhu. The Elder Being, whatever it is, wants to enter the Realms. It's tricking the Four Elemental Gods - Earth/Air/Fire/Water - into manifesting, but this is REALLY just an unwitting sacrifice that will in turn rip open a portal to the FAR REALM and let the really really really bad thing in...
The Cult of the Elemental God knows this, and the Prophets don't.
The Cult of the Elemental God knows this, and the Prophets don't.
Uller
Adventurer
Done.
More specific to this thread: my group is 7th level and has just encountered Marlos. We are having that fight this evening.
They basically bypassed the entire black earth temple and found him in his chamber (one PC saw him and is in the process of turning to stone).
But looking over his stats he's sort of...meh...sure he has his medusa powers and Ironfang. But nothing else that you would expect a PROPHET to have. In the description of some of the rooms indicate he has some elemental spell casting ability but his stats don't indicate any.
I dont think I want to make him a full blown caster but I'm thinking some innate spells that recharge are called for.
My plan is he isn't going to fight...he realize these heros killed his best fighter and survived a devastation orb. They must be fought on his terms. So how can the prophet of black earth escape to fight another day?
Meld to Stone comes to mind...stone shape...wall of stone...
Thoughts?
If they kill him they kill him...I like that the players get a say in how the game plays out.
Another thought is if the PC does full petrify then Marlos can use that as a bargaining chip.
Nebulous
Legend
Rock to Mud once per day, then Mud to Rock and encase the PCs. Stoneskin. Wall of Stone. They will be TERRIFIED of him.
Oh, oh! PCs trapped, and he gloatingly crouches beside them and upturns their chins to look into his face, smiling....
Nebulous
Legend
there a link?
Creamsteak
Explorer
Perhaps the spells added in the module: Investiture of Stone and the Mold Earth cantrip are fair game to add. Investiture of Stone would allow you to get away and make him significantly tougher, but leave open the opportunity to dispel it. The Investiture spells might be decent additions to all the prophets. They can be broken by concentration or dispel magic, so the PCs have tools at their disposal to counter them, but they provide a decent amount of protection each.
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