D&D 5E How many fans want a 5E Warlord?

[ChrisCarlson]

Yes. That's what Leadership provides; or more specifically, that's what Good Leadership provides.

He didn't, which is why they can do everything they can do without one. The presence of a Leader just makes them better.

I specifically mentioned 4e lazylords in my point. None of what you are implying applies to the issues I addressed with them.

 

[El Mahdi]

Easy. The fewer h.p. you have left the harder they are to cure...fluff it that physical injury has to be fixed before fatigue, or something. Then just go the all-half-none route.

So, we're back to changing the definition and mechanics of how Hit Points work; or at least using a different definition or view of Hit Points, within the Warlord's mechanics, than the game itself uses.

Why?

Why bend and twist the concept inside the Warlord class, when Inspirational Hit Point Recovery is already consistent with how the game works?

Do you really think your take would make the Warlord any more palatable to those that don't like it?

 

[El Mahdi]

I specifically mentioned 4e lazylords in my point. None of what you are implying applies to the issues I addressed with them.

What else is a coach other than a Lazylord?

 

[Imaro]

Well, just off the top of my head, pretty much all the major hero characters, outside the hobbits, from The Lord of the Rings would qualify at one time or another. King Theoden in particular comes to mind, though Boromir (Held the crossings of the River against the nazgul), Faramir (can 'govern man and beast' even when beset by the nazgul, and rallies the retreat from the crossings to keep it from a full scale rout). Certainly Aragorn, who's will and presence was so strong that his group followed him even through the paths of the dead, across half of Gondor in record time and little rest to the relief of Minus Tirith, then lead a small army to the Black Gates and kept them together through end until the Ring was destroyed. Gandalf, as the White Rider, though here you could probably get into clerical or arcane magic as the source. Same with the Witch King I suppose. Thorin's last charge in The Hobbit bears honorable mention as well: 'To me! To me! rang the great voice over the valley. And down rushed all the dwarves and most of the men, heedless of the danger' (not exact quotes, don't have books with me). This is not even getting into some of the appendices and the Silmarilion.

But I am asking for a character that is actually based on the warlord archetype... one of the issues with the warlord archetype IMO is that numerous characters from fighters to wizards do what he supposedly does. it's one of the reasons it's a weak archetype. Inspiring people is done by every "class" in most fiction... it's not in and of itself an archetype.

I'll try and think of more, non-tLotR, examples later. The current crop suggests that this may not be the province of just one class, but rather just one aspect of a character who chooses to develop (or is gifted with) those attributes.

Yep and this is why I'm Meh on the Warlord (won't stop playing 5e because of him, but I'm not particularly looking for one either)... he's based around a very narrow capability that almost every major character in fantasy fiction at one time or another displays....

EDIT: The funny thing about it, and one of the things that turns me off with the warlord in-game when I'm playing is that the major characters of fantasy usually do this to lesser characters in the stories... not to their peers. The Warlord does this to capable adventurers that should be his peers in their own specialties.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

Lazylord: "Hey, fighter. You can totally hit that monster twice as many times within 6 seconds as you thought."
Fighter: "Weird. I guess I'm clearly capable of it. Why wasn't I able to do that yesterday when you weren't around? You must know a lot more about sword fighting than I. Get up here and do it too."
Lazylord: "I can't. I'm pretty lame at it, actually. I can only tell others how to do it. Here, let me tell you how awesome you are so your wounds won't hurt as much."
Fighter: "But I am clearly not as awesome as I thought. At least not unless you are around telling me how to swing my sword. So you are the one who is truly awesome it would seem."

 

[Gadget]

But I am asking for a character that is actually based on the warlord archetype... one of the issues with the warlord archetype IMO is that numerous characters from fighters to wizards do what he supposedly does. it's one of the reasons it's a weak archetype. Inspiring people is done by every "class" in most fiction... it's not in and of itself an archetype.

Yes, fantasy characters rarely fit into neat categories, or are based on D&D classes. Even Conan, the archetypal barbarian, is in some ways better represented as a Rogue, Fighter, and yes Warlord. The point is that this 'narrow' archetype was poorly represented in D&D up to 4e, and fit rather well into 4e's design philosophy and needs (particularly the 'who's going to play the cleric' issue). If you think it is too narrow for a class, that is fine. I might even be inclined to agree with you in the context of 5e, depending on how well the idea is represented by other classes.

 

[Imaro]

Yes, fantasy characters rarely fit into neat categories, or are based on D&D classes. Even Conan, the archetypal barbarian, is in some ways better represented as a Rogue, Fighter, and yes Warlord. The point is that this 'narrow' archetype was poorly represented in D&D up to 4e, and fit rather well into 4e's design philosophy and needs (particularly the 'who's going to play the cleric' issue). If you think it is too narrow for a class, that is fine. I might even be inclined to agree with you in the context of 5e, depending on how well the idea is represented by other classes.

Even with that... most fantasy characters can be broadly grouped into categories... and Conan really could be represented, at least in 5e, as a fighter with really high attruibutes and the right background. What I'm looking for is a character whose main group would be "inspires others to fight better" as opposed to being grouped as a warrior, mage, rogue, etc. that inspires people once or twice.

 

[mellored]

Here's my quick attempt to make the ranger into a warlord...
Initiative bonus, healing, movement bonus... though no lazylord.

1:
Tracker: You can cast hunter's mark 1/short rest. All ranger spells are cast at a spell level equal to 1/4 your ranger level or their lowest level is, and use Wis.
Expertise in stealth and perception.

Path of... (sub-class)
Beast: You gain an animal companion(s) who's CR is 1/2 your ranger level. You can also train your beast to a higher CR (see monster manual). Companions acts on your turn and takes concentraion to command it, you can give 1 command a turn. It takes an action to reassert control, otherwise it will defend itself. Beast can know a number of simple commands equal to their Int modifier. For instance, "attack", "come", or "fetch". More complex commands may count as 2 commands. It takes a week of training to teach a command. The beast uses PC's death saves and durring a short rest you can use your your hit dice to heal the beast.
Seeker: You can cast ensaring strike or hail of thorns 1/short rest.
Dervish: Fighting style: TWF. You do not lose concentration of hunter's mark due to damage.

2: Outrider: When traveling, you and 5 others can travel at normal speed and still use stealth, or at fast speed and not take a perception penalty. You also are unhindered by natural difficult terrain.
Plan Ambush: If you study an enemy for 5 minutes without being seen you gain +Wisdom modifier on initive against them. If you spend an additional 5 minutes, you can pass this advise along to your allies, giving them the same bonus. Alternatively, you can spend 10 minutes preparing a location against any enemy for the same bonus.

3: Natures Bounty: You gain proficiency in herbalist and healing kit. When taking a short resting in a natural environment, you can make use of local plants to speed recovery. Allies who spend any hit die durring a short rest gain extra HP equal to Wis + your ranger level. Additionally, you have advantage on any check to find food or water.
Fighting style: Archery

4, 8, 12, 16, 19: ABI/Feat.

5: Multi-attack.

6: Path of ...
Beast: You can cast beast bond or animal friend ship 1/short rest.
Seeker: You can spiked growth or cordon of arrows 1/shot rest.
Dervish: +10 move speed. When you kill an enemy, you can select a new target for hunter's mark as a reaction.
7: Advantageous Terrain: You can spend 10 minutes to plan an escape route. You and your allies can spend 10 minutes to make difficult terrain in a 20' wide, 50' long area. Allies who helped are not slowed by it. The terrain returns to normal after 1 day.

9: Stealth Approach: When you use plan ambush, you and your allies have a minimum stealth roll of your wisdom score against the target. This last until you they are spotted.

10: Advanced Herbalism: During a short rest, you can use mystical plants to cure many more types of illness and curses, as if you cast the lesser restoration spell.

11: Guerrilla Warfare: 1/encounter, you and your allies can make a hasty retreat. They can use an action to disengage and move 1/2 their speed away from the enemy. If you used Plan Assault, they can move twice their speed down a predefined path.
Advanced Tracking: You can track flying, swimming, or creatures hidden by magic such as non-detect or pass without a trace. You have disadvantage on such checks.

...
17: Supreme Tracker: You can find anyone. By spending an hour searching for clues you know the general direction, but not distance, of a specific creature, or the nearest creature of a type who is on the same plain. This takes your concentration.
...

20: Vanish: Allies who use Guerrilla Warfare can use a bonus action to hide hide at the end of their movement. If you successfully use Plan Ambush, their minimum stealth roll is equal to your Wisdom modifier.

 

[Eric V]

My basis? That we are not having a formal debate here. So all your fancy "fallacy" claims and Aristotolian models are misplaced. At best.

Is this how you talk to your friends around the game table when they make a comment about something they don't like? I seriously doubt it. And if you do, you should consider stopping such behavior. Its rude and inappropriate for the kinds of discussions normal people have.

"Fallacy" is now considered a "fancy word?"

Yeesh. He pointed out that just because you say his point is illogical, does not make it so. That's all. That's hardly rude.

 

[ChrisCarlson]

"Fallacy" is now considered a "fancy word?"

Well since we are apparently swimming in the deep end of the pool, I will point out that you just used a strawman. I never said "fallacy" was a "fancy word".

Yeesh. He pointed out that just because you say his point is illogical, does not make it so. That's all. That's hardly rude.

And just because he "pointed something out" does not make my claim of his claim being illogical invalid. Just because I say the sky is blue does not make it so. But guess what...