Well, just off the top of my head, pretty much all the major hero characters, outside the hobbits, from The Lord of the Rings would qualify at one time or another. King Theoden in particular comes to mind, though Boromir (Held the crossings of the River against the nazgul), Faramir (can 'govern man and beast' even when beset by the nazgul, and rallies the retreat from the crossings to keep it from a full scale rout). Certainly Aragorn, who's will and presence was so strong that his group followed him even through the paths of the dead, across half of Gondor in record time and little rest to the relief of Minus Tirith, then lead a small army to the Black Gates and kept them together through end until the Ring was destroyed. Gandalf, as the White Rider, though here you could probably get into clerical or arcane magic as the source. Same with the Witch King I suppose. Thorin's last charge in The Hobbit bears honorable mention as well: 'To me! To me! rang the great voice over the valley. And down rushed all the dwarves and most of the men, heedless of the danger' (not exact quotes, don't have books with me). This is not even getting into some of the appendices and the Silmarilion.
The things the 4e Warlord did are so prevalent in genre, and even in broader heroic genres of any sort, that it's really comical to argue they don't exist. Yet, it's been tried. Now that it's been debunked, there's the opposite extreme: that the warlord shouldn't exist because everyone can do what it does. That's as valid and rational a position as saying that the Fighter shouldn't exist because anyone can pick up a sword.
But that won't stop anyone from trying it.
... one of the issues with the warlord archetype IMO is that numerous characters from fighters to wizards do what he supposedly does. it's one of the reasons it's a weak archetype. Inspiring people is done by every "class" in most fiction... it's not in and of itself an archetype... this is why I'm Meh on the Warlord (won't stop playing 5e because of him, but I'm not particularly looking for one either)... he's based around a very narrow capability that almost every major character in fantasy fiction at one time or another displays....
Case in point.
Anyone might exercise leadership at some point, so we don't need a Warlord?
But, by that logic, anyone can swing a sword, so we don't need the fighter.
First you pretend the Warlord archetype doesn't exist, then you pretend it's ubiquitous. In both cases, you try to imply a standard for inclusion that the Warlord wouldn't meet, but, in both cases, existing classes would also fail to meet that standard.
Ok, so herbalism, actual healing, magic potions (and apparently rallying which would count as inspirational healing) are all outside the character concept... what concept exactly is this again? The post I responded too asked about healing... not a particular role or concept.
The Warlord apparently worked for the concept, and it's not an herbalist or maker of healing potions, while the Cleric didn't work (and has been able to make potions). Doesn't seem like an unfair bit of speculation to say that such stuff 'may be well outside the character concept.'
Just like the vague sort of need for something despite 5e already emulating it? Just because it's not exactly what you want doesn't mean 5e didn't adequately represent it.
Nothing vague about the Warlord, we have a clear example of it being done well. 5e doesn't even come close to emulating that, least of all by offering a high-DPR fighter sub-class with a handful of 3rd-level maneuvers to see him through to 20th.
Since you brought up "IRL"... Can you provide an example of a leader who is inferior to the expert, yet makes the expert better through active direction and guidance?
Direction, guidance, inspiration, acting as a 'sounding board,' simply asking the right question at the right time, sure: Every effective leader I've ever met (mostly in the context of business) or heard of.
Yes but you've all been trained in similar if not the exact same way...the leader has the necessary knowledge of military procedures, tactics, weaponry, etc. could a Project Manager whose great at leading IT people come in and lead soldiers while they were under fire successfully?
No, because he's not prepared for the stress of combat, but the other way works: military experience is seen as a good source of leadership experience in the business world. And a good Project Manager whose always done IT could probably manage a project in other functional areas pretty well. Leadership is a fairly portable skill.
Or are we saying the Warlord is just knowledgeable enough and good enough at everything from sneaking to melee combat to spells that he can lead such a disparate group of people?
No. Well, maybe 'knowledgeable about,' depending on the concept. A Warlord might not cast spells, but it'd make sense that he'd be familiar with what his allies can do with magic, for instance.
Even with that... most fantasy characters can be broadly grouped into categories... and Conan really could be represented, at least in 5e, as a fighter with really high attruibutes and the right background. What I'm looking for is a character whose main group would be "inspires others to fight better" as opposed to being grouped as a warrior, mage, rogue, etc. that inspires people once or twice.
The Warlord concept generally /is/ a warrior (fan-enthusiasm-based 'lazylords' notwithstanding). But, yes, there's no shortage of characters whose main thing is leadership. Typically their secondary thing is martial skill, but not always. And, D&D has multi-classing, so it's not like there's no way to model characters less focused than the typical D&D class.
Yep and this is why I'm Meh on the Warlord (won't stop playing 5e because of him, but I'm not particularly looking for one either)... he's based around a very narrow capability that almost every major character in fantasy fiction at one time or another displays....
The funny thing about it, and one of the things that turns me off with the warlord in-game when I'm playing is that the major characters of fantasy usually do this to lesser characters in the stories... not to their peers. The Warlord does this to capable adventurers that should be his peers in their own specialties.
It's really pretty hard to find examples of ensemble casts in any sort of genre who are as balanced as RPG parties need to be. Any example of a class from genre is likely to be more or less 'major' (powerful, central to the plot or whatever) than other characters in the same story. Gandalf is theoretically more powerful than anyone else in the Fellowship - doesn't mean you can't have Wizards in D&D.
