D&D 5E How many fans want a 5E Warlord?

[MechaPilot]

I'll just go back to assuming that the Warlord is a terrible idea, and make sure that Wizards hears that every chance I get. That's easier than trying to have an honest discussion, apparently.

When's the next official poll, anyway?

Well let's be honest, even before you vent your frustrations toward Abdul against the warlord class and its other fans, we were already not getting a warlord from WotC anyway. We might get one from a third party if WotC finally irons out the licensing, which appears to be slated for 3015, but not from WotC.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Ok, never mind. I give up. You win.

That is, I'll stop trying to find a way to a middle ground if even my motivations are going to be doubted, and my character assaulted.

I'll just go back to assuming that the Warlord is a terrible idea, and make sure that Wizards hears that every chance I get. That's easier than trying to have an honest discussion, apparently.

When's the next official poll, anyway?

That really is what it feels like. I mean, maybe you literally only play games where you like every piece of material that comes out for that game, and every rule, etc. I don't know. I suspect most of us just ignore whatever it is we don't want to play with, and if someone else brings those elements into the game we just get on with our fun and don't really worry about it. I've played RPGs since 1975, thousands of different ones, with 1000's of people, and NEVER not had fun. Maybe once in a great while some really extreme jerk made me think "gosh, I wish he'd go away", but whatever the game was, whatever people's ideas and characters and whatever are, you roll with it. I don't expect people to play a game they really hate, but if one tiny knit can spoil it for you, there's a princess with a pea in her bed you might be related to.

 

[MechaPilot]

That really is what it feels like. I mean, maybe you literally only play games where you like every piece of material that comes out for that game, and every rule, etc. I don't know. I suspect most of us just ignore whatever it is we don't want to play with, and if someone else brings those elements into the game we just get on with our fun and don't really worry about it. I've played RPGs since 1975, thousands of different ones, with 1000's of people, and NEVER not had fun. Maybe once in a great while some really extreme jerk made me think "gosh, I wish he'd go away", but whatever the game was, whatever people's ideas and characters and whatever are, you roll with it. I don't expect people to play a game they really hate, but if one tiny knit can spoil it for you, there's a princess with a pea in her bed you might be related to.

You've already turned his limited interest in the class into not only total disinterest but disdain. Maybe laying off for a bit might be more productive than implying he's so fussy even the smallest imperfection will bug him mercilessly.

 

[Guest 6801328]

As I said, I thought we were in the process of finding common ground. I was recently even trying to help you with the issue you raised regarding the warlord and 'player agency.' I'm not sure why that conversation was dropped. Last I recall, I had asked you your opinion regarding the bard's inspiration die and whether that was more compelling for your sense of player agency, since the mechanic gives the player the choice of when and how to spend it.

For the record, my reaction to Bardic Inspiration is that it's magical, which offers all sorts of hand-waving possibilities. (Somebody else made the comment about the decision on when to spend it and how.) But it's probably also that the fluff of a Bard...a musical guy supporting the party...just isn't as offensive to me as an officer yelling at me and telling me better ways to do my job.

But I'm not really here. I'm dropping this debate. Check out the derisive generalizations with which Abdul responded....clearly he's not interested in an exchange of ideas.

 

[Aldarc]

For the record, my reaction to Bardic Inspiration is that it's magical, which offers all sorts of hand-waving possibilities. (Somebody else made the comment about the decision on when to spend it and how.) But it's probably also that the fluff of a Bard...a musical guy supporting the party...just isn't as offensive to me as an officer yelling at me and telling me better ways to do my job.

Okay. I was hoping to talk more about the mechanics, in which the bard provides another player with an inspiration die, than with the fluff. The question here is whether the idea of a bard/warlord providing an "inspiration die" that you can use at your leisure works within the bounds of your sense of player agency? If so, then would a warlord providing a similar type of die also be empowering to your own sense of agency while not "telling [you] better ways to do [your] job"?

 

[Shades of Eternity]

so you'd find it less offensive if you had a kobold mascot that gave you the same mechanical benefit because he has heart?

 

[Guest 6801328]

so you'd find it less offensive if you had a kobold mascot that gave you the same mechanical benefit because he has heart?

Yeah...I don't know. The whole "he's just so plucky and cute it's like having Little Orphan Annie in the room and it makes you want to be a better person" schtick makes me think, "Wait a second...don't I get a say in whether cute kobolds inspire me? Maybe I'm more of cat video sorta Half-orc."

As soon as magic is taken out of the picture it feels like I'm being told what my character thinks & feels.

 

[Shades of Eternity]

Yeah...I don't know. The whole "he's just so plucky and cute it's like having Little Orphan Annie in the room and it makes you want to be a better person" schtick makes me think, "Wait a second...don't I get a say in whether cute kobolds inspire me? Maybe I'm more of cat video sorta Half-orc."

As soon as magic is taken out of the picture it feels like I'm being told what my character thinks & feels.

Actually I understand that completely, but from the other direction.

I hate feeling like a "spell victim" because somebody cast a spell at me, even though it may very well have the same mechanical benefit. I prefer my wits, skills and training, and it's not always emulated well in dnd.

It also gives me dungeons and dragons the movie flashbacks.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah...I don't know. The whole "he's just so plucky and cute it's like having Little Orphan Annie in the room and it makes you want to be a better person" schtick makes me think, "Wait a second...don't I get a say in whether cute kobolds inspire me? Maybe I'm more of cat video sorta Half-orc."

As soon as magic is taken out of the picture it feels like I'm being told what my character thinks & feels.

Is anything in D&D really unequivocally non-magical though? It just seems like to me we don't have to be that hard and fast in our definitions. If you build the mechanics correctly, then you can spin it a lot of ways. This is one of the reasons I'd personally argue AGAINST trying to make it all 'temp hit points' and morale bonuses and 'psychology'. Now, perhaps you then conceive of your warlord almost like a sort of flavor of battle priest, or whatever, but that's not so bad either is it?

Maybe you're not inspired by the scaly little feller but Kurtulmak still has your back!

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Actually I understand that completely, but from the other direction.

I hate feeling like a "spell victim" because somebody cast a spell at me, even though it may very well have the same mechanical benefit. I prefer my wits, skills and training, and it's not always emulated well in dnd.

It also gives me dungeons and dragons the movie flashbacks.

While I tend to think that the game has a LOT of fantastical stuff in it, so I don't really get bothered by this to a huge extreme, there is a point in some games where it seems like the fighters in particular are healing potion heads and the cleric is a pusher. 4e did nicely thwart that, and a 5e warlord would be a way to get that back in 5e, at least somewhat.