D&D 3E/3.5 DM Advice [3.5] : Review my Half-Erinyes Template

[Uchiha_Arthas]

Greetings,

I've been convinced to run a game again and need someone to review this Half-Erinyes template for a particular player of mine.

I started with the Half-Fiend template and followed the advice in the Specific Fiends page but would like someone to review it.

House Ruled Half-Erinyes Template (LA +4):


Type: Outsider


Attrib: Str: +3, Dex: +3, Con: +3, Int: +1, Wis: +3, Cha: +4 [Total +16 same as Half-fiend. I tried to keep the same ratio as the Erinyes stats]


Speed: Black Angelic Wings Twice Base Creature's Land Speed (good maneuverability) [Equal to Half-Celestial]


AC: +1


Natural Attacks: None. [Erinyes do not have these]


Native Outsider Type


Darkvision (Ex): At 1st level, the half-erinyes gains darkvision to a 60-foot range.


Poison Immunity (Ex): At 2nd level, a half-erinyes becomes immune to all poisons.


Resistances (Ex): At 2nd level, a half-erinyes gains resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, and fire. At 4th level, each of these resistances increases to 10.


Spell Resistance (Su): At 2nd level, a half-erinyes gains spell resistance equal to her character level (maximum 25). At 4th level, her spell resistance increases by +10 (maximum 35).


Damage Reduction (Su): A 3rd-level or higher half-erinyes has damage reduction 5/good if her character level is 11th or lower, or damage reduction 10/good if her character level is 12th or higher. A half-erinyes treats her natural weapons as evil or lawful (pick one at creation) weapons for the purpose of bypassing the damage reduction of other creatures.


Smite Good (Su): Once per day, a half-erinyes of at least 3rd level may attempt to smite a good creature with one normal melee attack. This attack deals extra damage equal to her character level (maximum +20) against a good foe. If she accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect but is still used up for the day. [I am somewhat wondering about this. An erinyes does not have this ability so I was thinking of removing it entirely or switching it to Smite Chaotic to reflect Erinyes more taking part in the Blood War]


Spell-Like Abilities:

[TABLE="width: 551"] [TR] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]Minimum
Half-Fiend Level [/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]Minimum
Character Level[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]Spell-Like Abilities Gained[/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]1st [/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]1st[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]Darkness 3/day[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]
[/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]7th[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]Unholy blight 1/day[/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]
[/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]13th[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]True Seeing 1/day[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]2nd[/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]3rd[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]Minor Image 3/day
[/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]
[/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]6th[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]
[/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]13th[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]Charm Monster 3/day[/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]3rd[/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]9th[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]
[/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]15th[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]Horrid wilting 1/day[/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]
[/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]17th[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]Summon monster IX (fiends only) 1/day[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]4th[/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]11th[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]Greater Teleport (Self + 50 lbs Only) 1/day [/TD] [/TR] [TR="bgcolor: #F2F2F2"] [TD="width: 124, align: center"]
[/TD] [TD="width: 122, align: center"]19th[/TD] [TD="width: 285"]Destruction 1/day[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
I really need help on the Spell Abilities.

I dropped poison, unhallow, desecrate, unholy aura, contagion and blasphemy.

In their place I put in from the Erinyes spell abilities: Minor Image, Charm Monster, True Seeing and Greater Teleport [which is where I am doubtful.].

I have left Horrid Wilting, Summon Monster IX and Destruction even if they are not on the Erinyes list as they are higher level abilities and I felt if I removed them then it might actually lower the LA of the template and that they could be hand waved as a high level Erinyes's abilities.

Please review and let me know what you think.


EDIT:

Here is the level break down for the Template as per Racial Levels.

[TABLE="width: 551"] [TR] [TD="width: 51, align: center"]Level[/TD] [TD="width: 33, align: center"]CR[/TD] [TD="width: 447"]Special[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 51, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]1st [/TD] [TD="width: 33, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]*[/TD] [TD="width: 447, bgcolor: #F2F2F2"]Char +2, natural armor +1, darkvision 60 ft., outsider type, spell-like abilities[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 51, align: center"]2nd [/TD] [TD="width: 33, align: center"]**[/TD] [TD="width: 447"]Str +3, Int +1, poison immunity, resistances (acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5, fire 5), spell resistance (lesser), spell-like abilities[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 51, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]3rd [/TD] [TD="width: 33, bgcolor: #F2F2F2, align: center"]***[/TD] [TD="width: 447, bgcolor: #F2F2F2"] Dex +3, Cha +2, damage reduction, smite good, spell-like abilities[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="width: 51, align: center"]4th [/TD] [TD="width: 33, align: center"]***[/TD] [TD="width: 447"]Wis +3, Con +3, (acid 10, cold 10, electricity 10, fire 10), spell resistance (greater), spell-like abilities, wings[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]

 

[Bleys Icefalcon]

Str: +3, Dex: +3, Con: +3, Int: +1, Wis: +3, Cha: +4 [Total +16 same as Half-fiend. I tried to keep the same ratio as the Erinyes stats]

Poison Immunity (Ex): At 2nd level, a half-erinyes becomes immune to all poisons.

Resistances (Ex): At 2nd level, a half-erinyes gains resistance 5 to acid, cold, electricity, and fire. At 4th level, each of these resistances increases to 10.

Spell Resistance (Su): At 2nd level, a half-erinyes gains spell resistance equal to her character level (maximum 25). At 4th level, her spell resistance increases by +10 (maximum 35).

Damage Reduction (Su): A 3rd-level or higher half-erinyes has damage reduction 5/good if her character level is 11th or lower, or damage reduction 10/good if her character level is 12th or higher. A half-erinyes treats her natural weapons as evil or lawful (pick one at creation) weapons for the purpose of bypassing the damage reduction of other creatures.

Smite Good (Su): Once per day, a half-erinyes of at least 3rd level may attempt to smite a good creature with one normal melee attack. This attack deals extra damage equal to her character level (maximum +20) against a good foe. If she accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect but is still used up for the day. [I am somewhat wondering about this. An erinyes does not have this ability so I was thinking of removing it entirely or switching it to Smite Chaotic to reflect Erinyes more taking part in the Blood War]


Spell-Like Abilities:


Minimum Half-Fiend Level Minimum Character Level Spell-Like Abilities Gained
1st 1st Darkness 3/day
7th ​Unholy blight 1/day 13th True Seeing 1/day

2nd 3rd Minor Image 3/day
6th
13th Charm Monster 3/day
3rd 9th
15th Horrid wilting 1/day
17th Summon monster IX (fiends only) 1/day
4th 11th Greater Teleport (Self + 50 lbs only) 1/day
19th Destruction 1/day

I really need help on the Spell Abilities.

I dropped poison, unhallow, desecrate, unholy aura, contagion and blasphemy.

In their place I put in from the Erinyes spell abilities: Minor Image, Charm Monster, True Seeing and Greater Teleport [which is where I am doubtful.].

I have left Horrid Wilting, Summon Monster IX and Destruction even if they are not on the Erinyes list as they are higher level abilities and I felt if I removed them then it might actually lower the LA of the template and that they could be hand waved as a high level Erinyes's abilities.

Please review and let me know what you think.

Hmmmm. Disclaimer time: I have been accused many times (here on these boards and in person by fellow DMs players) of creating templates/classes/archtypes/prestige classes that are simply too powerful. This said, is everyone else going to have character on par with this one as far as raw power? Is the game you are going to run, going to need super-potent characters, IE: facing things that require a group of powerful characters to to even have a chance? If not, then in my humble opinion, this should be watered down. Either that or the ECL raised. +16 overall on stats, immune to all poisons, flying, some pretty massive spells... was this person also going to have a class, on top of this?

 

[Celebrim]

Well, I think LA is inherently a broken mechanic. At low levels, any +n LA adjusted character will be weaker than equivalent +0 LA characters because of a lack of HD. At some point, any attempt to balance that runs into the problem that as HD becomes sufficiently large in higher levels of play, any +n LA adjusted character will tend to be much stronger than equivalent +0 LA characters. Templates like Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial are massively problematic in this regard, and any template developed using that as a pattern will likewise be problematic. The only virtue you can make of that is typically that balance is massively problematic at high levels in 3.X anyway without some conscious table regard for limiting your build and playing at the same tier.

Assuming you are happy with all of that and know all of that already...

In general, your spell ability swaps are reasonable, and perhaps slightly favor the Half-Erinyes but not enough to change the LA.

My biggest worry is with your odd numbered ability increases, which will almost certain be abused to min/max in various ways the already highly breakable notion of unbalanced stat adjustments.

 

[Uchiha_Arthas]

Hmmmm. Disclaimer time: I have been accused many times (here on these boards and in person by fellow DMs players) of creating templates/classes/archtypes/prestige classes that are simply too powerful. This said, is everyone else going to have character on par with this one as far as raw power? Is the game you are going to run, going to need super-potent characters, IE: facing things that require a group of powerful characters to to even have a chance? If not, then in my humble opinion, this should be watered down. Either that or the ECL raised. +16 overall on stats, immune to all poisons, flying, some pretty massive spells... was this person also going to have a class, on top of this?

Well I used the official Half-Fiend Template in the monster manual as a base and it is a +4 LA same as my customised version and a +4 LA can be crippling if taken all at once.

As far as the Campaign goes:

Simple Version:
I am going to use Savage Progression for the template with the whole thing being broken into seperate class levels, so as far as the early part goes the PC will only have two levels of this template. Later this will grow depending on their actions.

Complex Version:
This is going to reflect more of a curse transformation for the PC. They have been cursed with the first two levels of this template (and suffer the LA for that) and will face the choice whether to master the curse or try to get rid of it (I know the Player, he will try to master it).

Basically the PC is devotee but not a cleric of the god of Vengence. Initially whenever they face a demon/celestiel or a target of their vengence then they will transform in to the Half-Fiend form and while this can be benificial, there will be social problems & alignment problems (I feel I can trust the guy to RP this decently.)

Well, I think LA is inherently a broken mechanic. At low levels, any +n LA adjusted character will be weaker than equivalent +0 LA characters because of a lack of HD. At some point, any attempt to balance that runs into the problem that as HD becomes sufficiently large in higher levels of play, any +n LA adjusted character will tend to be much stronger than equivalent +0 LA characters. Templates like Half-Fiend and Half-Celestial are massively problematic in this regard, and any template developed using that as a pattern will likewise be problematic. The only virtue you can make of that is typically that balance is massively problematic at high levels in 3.X anyway without some conscious table regard for limiting your build and playing at the same tier.

Assuming you are happy with all of that and know all of that already...

In general, your spell ability swaps are reasonable, and perhaps slightly favor the Half-Erinyes but not enough to change the LA.

My biggest worry is with your odd numbered ability increases, which will almost certain be abused to min/max in various ways the already highly breakable notion of unbalanced stat adjustments.

Hmm...Sorry for being a noob but what's wrong with the Odd numbered ability increases?

Also what are the spoiler tags on this forum?

 

[Bleys Icefalcon]

My two main concerns are just how tough of a monster are you going to have to throw at this party to make it a challenge for them? And is this person going to be just this, or this with a character class and all of the levels, abilities, spells, skills, feats that come with whatever class/level they are? This could be a significantly more powerful creature than you intended.

 

[Uchiha_Arthas]

My two main concerns are just how tough of a monster are you going to have to throw at this party to make it a challenge for them? And is this person going to be just this, or this with a character class and all of the levels, abilities, spells, skills, feats that come with whatever class/level they are? This could be a significantly more powerful creature than you intended.

A psychic warrior actually. Campaign starts off at Level 5 so the PC will be level 3 (+2 LA from the first two levels of the template).

I've edited the OP to show the level by level break down of the template.

Edit:

Forgot about Opposition:

Starts off with Cultists & Priests of the Celestiels, Devils, Demons etc, intermingled with a few generic opponents power hungry wizards/warlords then later on battles against actual Demons/Devils/Celestiels depending on how the campaign goes. Target if they reach high enough level is for the party to fight against an actual Demon Prince / Lord of the Nine or a Celestial equivalent. That is a target but how I am going to swing it wiill depends on how the campaign goes or who the party chooses to side with. Basic plot is that the Blood War (War between Demons & Devils) eventually spills over onto the material and with the Celestials taking action against both...

 

[Uchiha_Arthas]

So can anyone tell me what the problem is with odd numbered ability increases? or is it ok if I keep them?