[Eberron] How would The Church of the Silver Flame react to an aspiring god?

[Igfig]

I've got a really weird situation in my Eberron campaign that I just don't know how to deal with.


One of the PCs is an efreet (using a homebrew class derived from the MM entry), and due to his great personal power, he's convinced that he's some kind of god. Let's call him Frosty.


The party has some ties to the Church of the Silver Flame, and Jaela Daran in particular; among other things, she saved Frosty's life and enabled him to transition from being a basic fire elemental to an efreet, using the power of the Silver Flame. (This turned Frosty's flames permanently silver-blue.)


So, during a six-month bout of downtime between adventures, Frosty decided to become an acolyte of the Church... or as he'd put it, an apprentice to the Silver Flame. As in, he's studying how to correctly be a god.


On the one hand, the Church is glad to have him serving their cause, and eager to instill their values in him. He could be a powerful champion. On the other hand, his service is clearly being offered only to advance his own interests, so he could very well turn on them if he changes his mind.


Likewise, as an eleven-year-old girl, Jaela thinks Frosty is great: he's huge, he can fly, he can be really silly. They have tea parties sometimes. But putting aside her personal feelings—acting as the direct representative of her god on Eberron—she thinks... well, I really don't know.


Is trying to become a god sacreligious? Or is it not worth worrying about, because it's pretty likely he can't do it? Of course, you can't tell Frosty that, because that would probably make him angry to be told it's impossible. How do you go about keeping a megalomaniacal efreet on your side and philosophy without directly addressing their problematic goals?


So I'm kinda stuck on this. What do you think?

 

[delericho]

As I understand it, divine ascension isn't really a thing in Eberron, meaning that what he's attempting to do isn't really possible. So he's probably mad.

As for how the church would react: remember that the religions in Eberron aren't alignment-tied in the same way as they are in more standard settings, and the CotSF in particular is pretty broad. As a result of that, there are many factions within the church, each of which will react in a different way.

So it may well be that many members are happy to follow the Keeper's view that he's harmless and fun, while some more fanatical elements will declare him a heretic and try to destroy him. And some other factions (or, indeed, factions within the two above) will seek to use Frosty to push their own political agenda, either by currying favour with the "apprentice deity" or by trying to trick him into an indiscretion through which they can start the Clone Wars/bring down the Keeper.

 

[Scrivener of Doom]

The Silver Flame is not a deity, per se, and its concern is keeping the BBEGs bound. That translates into the doctrine that the purpose of the followers of the Silver Flame is to fight supernatural evil.

If "Frosty" is perceived to be supernatural evil then the church of the Silver Flame will go after him.

He's also likely to be perceived to be related to the Shadow in the Flame and, on that basis, I am surprised they haven't launched a pogrom against him already.

And that's just some thoughts before getting into how certain factions might use his relationship with the Keeper to advance their own agendas....

 

[Aenghus]

Some good advice from a theoretical worldbuilding point of view so far. Thing is, some of this could lead to removing from play/ making unplayable a character the player seems to enjoy playing. So what the player is interested in is more important than what the PC is interested in, IMO.

So, whatever you come up with, try and leave room for the player to make decisions, and try and leave room for the character in some shape or form. Don't force the PC to become a hunted heretic unless the player is happy with such a storyline. There is no need for matters to go all dark and dramatic unless everyone is on board with such a direction.

I'm not saying there can't be consequences for PC decisions, even serious ones, but they should be carefully considered, and DM-created situations which make the PC totally non-viable should be avoided IMO.

 

[Storminator]

The Silver Flame believes that when adherents die, they join the Flame. So as long as he's faithful, Frosty will be part of a god. It's a not far from there to being a separate god, from Frosty's perspective.

If it were my game, the Church would be all for adding to Frosty's power and letting him pull Silver Flame divinity into himself (he's filled with the Holy Spirit! Watch him smite our foes!). Then when Frosty starts keeping that power for himself and devising alternative doctrines, the Church would become watchful and distrustful. Then, when Frosty finally makes his move towards full blown divinity, the Church becomes horrified and seeks to destroy him.

Of course, with the Shadow in the Flame, I'd have a twin, secret, schism with the exact opposite agenda the whole time. Sounds fantastic.

PS

 

[delericho]

Of course, with the Shadow in the Flame, I'd have a twin, secret, schism with the exact opposite agenda the whole time. Sounds fantastic.

A twin, secret, schism, or an evil twin of Frosty himself?

 

[Herobizkit]

I would think that, should the Efreet's intent be genuine, that the Efreet's ultimate reward would be to join with the Flame and become part of its host of Noble souls.

From an Eberron wikia:

The Silver Flame is not an anthropomorphic deity. It is a celestial force comprised of a vast multitude of noble spirits. [...] Some say that when a true follower of the Flame passes on, his spirit joins with the Silver Flame, strengthening the light. While some people may see this as a mediocre reward, the priests of the Flame say that they can achieve no greater bliss and that glory beyond anything that can be experienced in life awaits.

 

[Joey2]

Hey, all. I'm the guy playing this 'frosty' character in ig's game. Just (got permission to) read this thread and to address some points:

As I understand it, divine ascension isn't really a thing in Eberron, meaning that what he's attempting to do isn't really possible. So he's probably mad.

See, frosty thinks he already is a god. The problem is too few beside him realize or acknowledge his deity, so he wants the lowdown on how to be a better god. The anger is more at the people not accepting the truth of his godhood than frustration at taking an impossible task.

I would think that, should the Efreet's intent be genuine, that the Efreet's ultimate reward would be to join with the Flame and become part of its host of Noble souls.

While there are some positives to starting out with the Silver Flame as the tradesman (the god being literally present, firebody kinship, a high priestess who readily takes frosty in and likes him), his 'devotion' is only by coincidence of a former party member having a connection in the Cathedral of Flamekeep. If her associate had instead been part of the council in Passage, Aundair, frosty might just well be under the tutelage of a priest of Onatar.

In fact, after his caretaker/teacher and the current Keeper die, he will likely go on to study under any other gods, though he hasn't said as much to anyone.

If it were my game, the Church would be all for adding to Frosty's power and letting him pull Silver Flame divinity into himself (he's filled with the Holy Spirit! Watch him smite our foes!). Then when Frosty starts keeping that power for himself and devising alternative doctrines, the Church would become watchful and distrustful. Then, when Frosty finally makes his move towards full blown divinity, the Church becomes horrified and seeks to destroy him.

Our previous adventure ended with us killing the Lord of Blades as he was trying to push himself as a new god through war on all 'fleshbags'. While frosty wasn't completely against the idea and joined the fight against for more personal reasons, he did get the message: don't go around boasting your divinity, it makes the insecure mortals mad.

Since he joined the Church (that is, hours after the war) his outbursts of "F-- you I'm a god" have trailed off, but all have heard him talk about himself as such. The first time he met the Keeper she thanked him for his service to the Church, he thanked her for aiding his further ascension.

All of the time in the Church is hopefully leading up to a point where frosty can talk to the Flame itself in the inner Chamber to offer the apprenticeship, and that won't happen if he is still acting more like himself, as far as he can figure. And with a lifespan of 'yes' he can spend some decades serving in Flamekeep. So the outbursts stay dormant til he goes on quests. Any valuables get paid back to the Church (what does he care for money, the church pays whatever upkeep). Acolytic study under his teacher is taken seriously. But only by coincidence, and with no plans to stay for his immortal lifetime.