D&D 5E The Soul of the Sorcerer

[MoonSong]

Mechanically, I think WotC missed the boat by making metamagic the sorcerer's gig. I would have made them the con caster, made their noncantrip spell list the concentration spells from the wizard, bard, and warlock (subclasses could add concentration spells from the druid and cleric), and restrict the war mage feat to 11th level or higher characters. Metamagic could go to magic items (get your wand of twinning for 20 gps....). As high con types, they would make more con saves so it is less likely that their concentration spells will be disrupted--sorcerers are so in tune with magic it is hard to break their spells by hitting them like it is for other casters.....Plus sorcerers ought to have mutant (hybrid) vitality.

Thematically (and I admit this doesn't quite square with the mechanical idea), I like the thought that the sorcerer only thinks he/she is a human, elf, dwarf, etc., but is really a nascent elemental/dragon/demon/angel, etc. Kind of protective camouflage. As they level up, their "true selves" manifest more.

No offense, but this would be very off-putting. Changing form Cha to Con really changes the way the class plays and the concepts that can be played with them. (Only the sorcerer from the Radiance uses Con, curiously it is very close to your ideas) The "Actually a dragon/angel whatever in disguise" could be interesting, but robs the class of the every(wo)man aspect it has. Out of all the casters, the sorcerer is the only one that can truly come from anywhere without any mandatory action in the background -like selling your soul, deovting to a deity, devoting to nature, study music like crazy, study a lot of books- conceptually -though not so much in practicce with the rigid bloodlines we have so far- it is the most generic of them, flavor poisoning would be a disservice, not a plus IMO.

I would have wanted to see a sorcerer that was more of the wizard's equal, maybe with metamagic open to all via feats, but to be truly equivalent. Instead of "know way less than the wizard can prepare but compensate it with metamagic", I would prefer to "know more spells than the wizard can prepare, but they are set in stone". With the sorcerer knowing lets say five spells at first level, (for the wizard's 3-4 prepared), and scale so they end up with 30 at third level -against the wizard's 25) just with some class features to reinforce the flavor, like not needing VSM, except for costly spells, maybe a couple extra cantrips to off-set the lack of ritual caster and with all simple weapons (and the chance to get extra attack in order to focus spellcasting on non-combat).

 

[MoonSong]

There was no boat to missed. Sorcerer was forced to be Cha based as prievious versions were. They tried to innovate during the playtest and were shot down hard.

So They stuck to the basics:

• Casts spells
• Charisma based
• Has access to attack spells (no need to take them but access)
• No spellbook
• Can cast know spells at any time in any open slot (given to all casters)
• Knows spells
• Has Charisma skills
• No armor by default
• Low Hp by default

Add in the fact that 3rd and 4rd edition sorcerer were very different even with rule changes in style, theme, spells, and available combat, exploration, and interaction roles,, WOTC did a decent job given the harsh playtest backlash. They were just too tame after the harsh words and their wizard favoritism took over.

No, the designers wasted valuable playtest time by trying to fold everything into wizard. Then when they received the obvious negative feedback on it, they went back to the drawing board, just never bothered to ask about the sorcerer Because wizard favoritism was so strong they forgot the sorcerer fans are not necessarily wizard fans and designed the class for wizard players -themselves-.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I think the sorcerer should have been a wizard subclass, personally. Warlock is different enough for it's own class. Sorcerer aint.

 

[Minigiant]

No, the designers wasted valuable playtest time by trying to fold everything into wizard. Then when they received the obvious negative feedback on it, they went back to the drawing board, just never bothered to ask about the sorcerer Because wizard favoritism was so strong they forgot the sorcerer fans are not necessarily wizard fans and designed the class for wizard players -themselves-.

First they tried to fold the sorcerer, warlock, and artificer into the wizard during the playtest.
The community reacted very negatively.
Then there was the playtest sorcerer that turned into a fighter when its spells ran out.
The community reacted very negatively. Many thought the idea was cool but not for the sorcerer.

And innovation was stifled in 5th edition. After all the backlash, the designers quit trying to add big changes and opted for little one and variant. Then the wizard favoritism took hold.

I think the sorcerer should have been a wizard subclass, personally. Warlock is different enough for it's own class. Sorcerer aint.

They tried that.
The community rebelled.

______

The poll

• The natural wizard
• 35 52.24%
• The arcane striker
• 16 23.88%
• The thematic blaster
• 28 41.79%
• The blunt hammer
• 17 25.37%
• Lunch!!
• 13 19.40%

Just look at it. For all the desire for the sorcerer to be different, being a variant wizard is winning followed by thematic shooter of spells.

 

[Azurewraith]

Voted natural wizard only because it seemed to fit the closest i personally think the sorcerer needs more spells to choose from their list is way to gimped way i see it sorcerers should be able to pick from ANY spell in the game regardless of school or power source to offset it that's it once they pick a spell it is picked for ever and ever. As to me sorcerers ARE magic it is in them for whatever reason they should be able to learn to shape it in anyway be it practice or instinct

 

[MechaTarrasque]

There was no boat to missed. Sorcerer was forced to be Cha based as prievious versions were. They tried to innovate during the playtest and were shot down hard.

So They stuck to the basics:

• Casts spells
• Charisma based
• Has access to attack spells (no need to take them but access)
• No spellbook
• Can cast know spells at any time in any open slot (given to all casters)
• Knows spells
• Has Charisma skills
• No armor by default
• Low Hp by default

Add in the fact that 3rd and 4rd edition sorcerer were very different even with rule changes in style, theme, spells, and available combat, exploration, and interaction roles,, WOTC did a decent job given the harsh playtest backlash. They were just too tame after the harsh words and their wizard favoritism took over.

I disagree about the boat part. As soon as the devs knew that they were giving all casters the ability to cast known spells at any time, they needed to make a major overhaul in the sorcerer. To their credit, they tried once. If there had been a second or third iteration in the playtest, I suspect more people would have been open to a more radical change. Since concentration was going to be a big mechanic in 5e, it is a logical area to look into if you were making a big change to a class. I suppose they could have given sorcerers the ability to make cha checks to keep concentration going, but that is less elegant than making them a con caster (keeps everyone making con checks to maintain concentration).

 

[MechaTarrasque]

No offense, but this would be very off-putting. Changing form Cha to Con really changes the way the class plays and the concepts that can be played with them. (Only the sorcerer from the Radiance uses Con, curiously it is very close to your ideas) The "Actually a dragon/angel whatever in disguise" could be interesting, but robs the class of the every(wo)man aspect it has. Out of all the casters, the sorcerer is the only one that can truly come from anywhere without any mandatory action in the background -like selling your soul, deovting to a deity, devoting to nature, study music like crazy, study a lot of books- conceptually -though not so much in practicce with the rigid bloodlines we have so far- it is the most generic of them, flavor poisoning would be a disservice, not a plus IMO.

I think the ugly duckling story is sufficient to prove that the everyman and nascent dragon/angel/etc. are completely compatible.

 

[Uchawi]

I view the sorcerer as an innate caster. It does not matter how that bond is formed via bloodline, time, element, chaos, or law. The problem is the class was squeezed out by the wizard, warlock and bard mechanically. All it is had left was crumbs, unless they want to create yet another sub-system. The fighter class suffered the same fate when considering the battle master or worse the champion fighter.

Probably the release of a psionic class will be closer to the mark on what the class should have been.

There are three overarching archetypes in my mind when considering casters, i.e. granted power (cleric, druid, warlock), power from within (psion, sorcerer) and external power (wizard, artificer).

 

[Sunseeker]

I like the idea that the Sorcerer has a natural connection to magic. Where the Wizard has learned the code-words to unlock the tools to shaping reality, the Sorcerer has an innate connection to the magical energy surrounding them. Maybe it's from simple luck of the draw, maybe it's from genetics. I like to conceptualize the Sorcerer similar to the "spark" of a Planeswalker from MTG. Some people have it, some people don't. I do think that the Sorcerer has a theme, I don't think that theme should be limited "blaster" but I do think they should be limited to a particular theme, like the Eldritch Knight is limited to a theam that makes him more of a war caster with an array of offensive spells instead of utility.

I think this could be filled in through the bloodlines. Fey bloodlines could be more about illusion and mind effects. Old One bloodlines could be about crazy stuff. I think there's a lot of room there, but it certainly takes up a LOT of writeup space.

 

[Minigiant]

I think the ugly duckling story is sufficient to prove that the everyman and nascent dragon/angel/etc. are completely compatible.

But it removes a lot of the class's history.

That is against 5th edition's premise. 5th edition is supposed to be compatible with the flavor of the past editions.

I view the sorcerer as an innate caster. It does not matter how that bond is formed via bloodline, time, element, chaos, or law. The problem is the class was squeezed out by the wizard, warlock and bard mechanically. All it is had left was crumbs, unless they want to create yet another sub-system. The fighter class suffered the same fate when considering the battle master or worse the champion fighter.

Probably the release of a psionic class will be closer to the mark on what the class should have been.

There are three overarching archetypes in my mind when considering casters, i.e. granted power (cleric, druid, warlock), power from within (psion, sorcerer) and external power (wizard, artificer).

So what kind of mechanics should a sorcerer have? What mechanically is the different between an innate caster, a bestowed caster, and a learned caster?

What should be the pros and cons of being a sorcerer?

I like the idea that the Sorcerer has a natural connection to magic. Where the Wizard has learned the code-words to unlock the tools to shaping reality, the Sorcerer has an innate connection to the magical energy surrounding them. Maybe it's from simple luck of the draw, maybe it's from genetics. I like to conceptualize the Sorcerer similar to the "spark" of a Planeswalker from MTG. Some people have it, some people don't. I do think that the Sorcerer has a theme, I don't think that theme should be limited "blaster" but I do think they should be limited to a particular theme, like the Eldritch Knight is limited to a theam that makes him more of a war caster with an array of offensive spells instead of utility.

I think this could be filled in through the bloodlines. Fey bloodlines could be more about illusion and mind effects. Old One bloodlines could be about crazy stuff. I think there's a lot of room there, but it certainly takes up a LOT of writeup space.

Here's my question.
Should the sorcerer only get spells from its bloodlines, get any spell with no favoritism, or get any spell but only the bloodline ones are stronger?