Converting Epic Level Creatures

[freyar]

NA +28 or even +30 is fine, I was just trying to rough out an estimate. But I do think the lower HD and smaller size should keep the AC down a little even if his overall CR is high.

 

[Cleon]

NA +28 or even +30 is fine, I was just trying to rough out an estimate. But I do think the lower HD and smaller size should keep the AC down a little even if his overall CR is high.

Well the original Andromidus had an AC of -2. That's near the high end of the AC range of the AD&D greater titans, who range from 2 to -3.

I'd rather our conversion had an AC toward the upper ranks rather than keeping it down.

Let's compare the ACs of the extant Greater Titans and see if that gets us anywhere:

Atlas: 1E: –3; 3E: 44 (-4 size, +5 Dex, +33 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 39
Coeus: 1E: 2; 3E: 41 (-2 size, +5 Dex, +28 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 36
Crius: 1E: –3; 3E: 41 (-8 size, +6 Dex, +33 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 35
Cronus/Kronus: 1E: 2; 3E: 40 (-8 size, +10 Dex, +28 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 30
Epimetheus: 1E: –3; 3E: 41 (-8 size, +6 Dex, +33 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 35
Oceanus: 1E: –3; 3E: 42 (-8 size, +7 Dex, +33 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 35
Prometheus: 1E: –2; 3E: 55 (-8 size, +7 Dex, +32 natural, +14 insight), touch 23, flat-footed 48

Generic Greater Titan: 1E: 4 to –3; 3E: 39 (-4 size, +5 Dex, +28 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 34

Hmm, that's odd.

All of our Titan conversions have ACs around 41-44 except for Prometheus, who has an AC eleven points higher than the next toughest (Atlas's AC 44). Despite many of those 40-odd AC Titans having slightly better ACs than Prometheus in earlier editions.

Ah, I see... Prometheus has his Wisdom modifier as an insight bonus to AC. If the other Titans had insight bonuses too it would zonk their ACs up into the 50s to be at a similar level to Prometheus, although they'd still all be slightly short of his AC 55:

Atlas: AC: 54 (-4 size, +5 Dex, +33 natural, +10 insight), touch 21, flat-footed 49
Coeus AC: 52 (-2 size, +5 Dex, +28 natural, +11 insight), touch 24, flat-footed 47
Crius: AC: 54 (-8 size, +6 Dex, +33 natural, +13 insight), touch 21, flat-footed 48
Cronus/Kronus AC: 51 (-8 size, +10 Dex, +28 natural, +11 insight), touch 23, flat-footed 41
Epimetheus AC: 54 (-8 size, +6 Dex, +33 natural, +13 insight), touch 21, flat-footed 48
Oceanus AC: 51 (-8 size, +7 Dex, +33 natural, +9 insight), touch 18, flat-footed 44
Prometheus AC: 55 (-8 size, +7 Dex, +32 natural, +14 insight), touch 23, flat-footed 48
Generic Greater Titan AC: 48 (-4 size, +5 Dex, +28 natural, +9 insight), touch 20, flat-footed 43

Hmm... it looks like the problem is either Prometheus's AC is way too high or the other Greater Titans ACs are way too low.

If it was up to me I'd let the other Greater Titans have an insight bonus too and maybe tweak Atlas, Crius and Oceanus's NA up a few points.

However that seems impractical at the moment, since the (a) the conversions were "signed off" on long ago, and (b) the Creature Catalog's down!

 

[Cleon]

Well the original Andromidus had an AC of -2. That's near the high end of the AC range of the AD&D greater titans, who range from 2 to -3.

I'd rather our conversion had an AC toward the upper ranks rather than keeping it down.

Let's compare the ACs of the extant Greater Titans and see if that gets us anywhere:

Getting back on topic, my current preference for Andromidus's AC is:

Armor Class: 54 (-4 size, +4 Dex, +30 natural, +14 insight), touch 24, flat-footed 50

If he didn't have the insight bonus that'd be AC 40, touch 10, flat-footed 36, which at the low end of the Greater Titans we have listed.

EDIT: I'd also be OK with +28 NA. At least 52 has a 2 in it like the original's AC -2. :

Armor Class: 52 (-4 size, +4 Dex, +28 natural, +14 insight), touch 24, flat-footed 48

 

[freyar]

Hmmm. I guess the first option is fine by me.

 

[Cleon]

Hmmm. I guess the first option is fine by me.

Hmm... I'm starting to like the +28 NA version better.

Still, it makes little difference to me.

Which do you fancy?

 

[freyar]

Dice roll! 1=+28, 2=+30
[roll0]

EDIT: looks like my vote goes to +30

 

[Cleon]

Dice roll! 1=+28, 2=+30
[roll0]

EDIT: looks like my vote goes to +30

That's an idea! Let's see, how does the die rolling go again...?

 

[freyar]

{roll}XdY{/roll} with square brackets instead of curly ones. But you can only roll in a new post, not during an edit.

[roll0]

EDIT: That looks like a conflict. I vote we just go with the first roll.

 

[Cleon]

{roll}XdY{/roll} with square brackets instead of curly ones. But you can only roll in a new post, not during an edit.

[roll0]

EDIT: That looks like a conflict. I vote we just go with the first roll.

Ta. I thought it was something like that.

Let's have a go then...

[roll0]

 

[Cleon]

EDIT: That looks like a conflict. I vote we just go with the first roll.

I don't know, the random number generator gods appear to be favouring the 1 result.