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D&D 5E Pulling your punches
- Thread starter wellerpond
- Start date
I do death saving throws for named NPCs and anyone else the PCs want to save. They just have to tell me they want to save that one and they need to get some healing magic to it.
Sometimes they are not successful. 2 sessions ago, the party stabilized a priestess of Lolth for questioning later. They gagged and tied her up, and the half-gnoll paladin carried her along. They were attacked by octopins and were low on resources, so the war cleric cast Spirit Guardians at level 4 (all he had left) and probably saved the party from the octopins. Unfortunately, he forgot to name the priestess as someone to not be hit. After the fight, the paladin checked on the priestess and found that her head was missing.
Sometimes they are not successful. 2 sessions ago, the party stabilized a priestess of Lolth for questioning later. They gagged and tied her up, and the half-gnoll paladin carried her along. They were attacked by octopins and were low on resources, so the war cleric cast Spirit Guardians at level 4 (all he had left) and probably saved the party from the octopins. Unfortunately, he forgot to name the priestess as someone to not be hit. After the fight, the paladin checked on the priestess and found that her head was missing.
Nebulous
Legend
After the fight, the paladin checked on the priestess and found that her head was missing.
"Hey, are you alright?"
wellerpond
Villager
Thanks for the thought, guys. Lot's of good ideas. I'm going to start with Nebulous' idea and see how it goes!
robus
Lowcountry Low Roller
Resurrecting this thread because the 5E RAW for knocking a creature out are unsatisfying to me. It really needs a way for a player to target a creature's brain department and give it a hearty whack. But saying the creature needs to be brought to 0 hit points in order for it to be successful seems crazy hard (given how vulnerable brains generally are...)
I feel like something like this might be better...
Knocking a Creature Out
A blow must be applied with a blunt weapon and deliver 1/4 of the creatures total hit points to its head. The player declares their intent to attempt a knock out, for example "I whack the creature on the head with a chair". The DM sets a DC based on the circumstances (is the creature wearing a helmet?, does the player have a two handed grip on the chair? etc), and the player rolls a Strength check with advantage/disadvantage depending on whether the creature is aware of the attack or not. If the player is able to hit the creature on the head (i.e. they roll at least the DC) they then roll damage - if the damage is greater than or equal to 1/4 of the creatures total HP the creature is knocked out (and their HP is reduced by the corresponding amount).
Thoughts?
I feel like something like this might be better...
Knocking a Creature Out
A blow must be applied with a blunt weapon and deliver 1/4 of the creatures total hit points to its head. The player declares their intent to attempt a knock out, for example "I whack the creature on the head with a chair". The DM sets a DC based on the circumstances (is the creature wearing a helmet?, does the player have a two handed grip on the chair? etc), and the player rolls a Strength check with advantage/disadvantage depending on whether the creature is aware of the attack or not. If the player is able to hit the creature on the head (i.e. they roll at least the DC) they then roll damage - if the damage is greater than or equal to 1/4 of the creatures total HP the creature is knocked out (and their HP is reduced by the corresponding amount).
Thoughts?
pukunui
Legend
Have a look at the optional System Shock rule in the DMG.
Skyscraper
Adventurer
I think that using a lethal weapon to deal non-lethal damage is like improvising a weapon. The sword deals 1d8 damage because it can cut you. I don't think it should deal that amount of damage if you're trying to hit someone with the flat of your sword, which requires to be careful in the way you hit. I'd certainly favor a club over a sword if hitting with the sword edge was our of the question.
So I'd rule that you need to advise in advance if you're trying to knock out instead of killing. Then, unless you have a suitable weapon for this purpose, you use the improvised weapon rules. My understanding of these rules is that the weapon attack is made without the weapon proficiency and deals 1d4 default damage unless you as DM feel that the weapon should be more effective and deal more damage (as they mention, picking up a table leg might be equivalent to a club). Personally, I'd go with no proficiency bonus/1d4 damage for most stuff; and make a few exceptions, including the staff, the club, punches (e.g. monk's), and allow those to keep the proficiency bonus to attack rolls but reduce their damage to 1d4 (or, if you prefer, keep their damage, but remove the proficiency bonus to attack rolls.)
I would stick with this only.
If you want to have a chance of killing the opponent instead of knocking him out, in addition or instead of the above, you can introduce a death save mechanic for the opponent: you have the opponent make a single death save when he's knocked out, on a 10+ on d20 he survives, on a 1-9 he dies.
And maybe, on a 20 he becomes immediately conscious at 1 HP. Yeah, that would be fun
Thought you had him...
This is a simple rule, easy to implement and remember.
So I'd rule that you need to advise in advance if you're trying to knock out instead of killing. Then, unless you have a suitable weapon for this purpose, you use the improvised weapon rules. My understanding of these rules is that the weapon attack is made without the weapon proficiency and deals 1d4 default damage unless you as DM feel that the weapon should be more effective and deal more damage (as they mention, picking up a table leg might be equivalent to a club). Personally, I'd go with no proficiency bonus/1d4 damage for most stuff; and make a few exceptions, including the staff, the club, punches (e.g. monk's), and allow those to keep the proficiency bonus to attack rolls but reduce their damage to 1d4 (or, if you prefer, keep their damage, but remove the proficiency bonus to attack rolls.)
I would stick with this only.
If you want to have a chance of killing the opponent instead of knocking him out, in addition or instead of the above, you can introduce a death save mechanic for the opponent: you have the opponent make a single death save when he's knocked out, on a 10+ on d20 he survives, on a 1-9 he dies.
And maybe, on a 20 he becomes immediately conscious at 1 HP. Yeah, that would be fun
Thought you had him...This is a simple rule, easy to implement and remember.
robus
Lowcountry Low Roller
I'm not finding that in the DMG - can you give me a page number (it's not in the index either...)
As a player, it feels pretty crappy when you accidentally kill an ally or decapitate innocent guards during a misunderstanding. What is it you are looking to add to the game through adding in a chance of random unintentional homicide?
As a GM I would like for PCs to have a chance to fail to capture and interrogate some NPCs, but am reluctant to introduce a mechanic for that and apply it evenly across all instances of subduel.
One mechanic I have used in the past was that in order to subdue somebody, you could pull the shot which meant not adding your stat to the damage. So your longsword only does d8, not d8+4 (alternative rule was 1+stat damage). This was interesting, as it meant that you could wind up not doing enough damage, and requiring more blows to drop the enemy. It also made it a meaningful choice rather than subduel being an "always on mode".
What I liked about that mechanic was that it always worked to not kill the target. No matter what you will not kill them. You might fail to KO them, but you definetly will not accidently kill them. The accidental deaths only happen when the PC thinks the enemy has more HP than they do, or gets a crit while not trying to subdue.
As a GM I would like for PCs to have a chance to fail to capture and interrogate some NPCs, but am reluctant to introduce a mechanic for that and apply it evenly across all instances of subduel.
One mechanic I have used in the past was that in order to subdue somebody, you could pull the shot which meant not adding your stat to the damage. So your longsword only does d8, not d8+4 (alternative rule was 1+stat damage). This was interesting, as it meant that you could wind up not doing enough damage, and requiring more blows to drop the enemy. It also made it a meaningful choice rather than subduel being an "always on mode".
What I liked about that mechanic was that it always worked to not kill the target. No matter what you will not kill them. You might fail to KO them, but you definetly will not accidently kill them. The accidental deaths only happen when the PC thinks the enemy has more HP than they do, or gets a crit while not trying to subdue.
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