AL VS LFR of 4th and why I'm so disappointed

[kalani]

Ok guys, enough is enough. Let's keep the thread civil and on topic please. I thought you guys had gotten the minor argument out of your systems a few pages back lol.

 

[Coredump]

seriously mate? whine and complain, passive aggressive about something that actually happened. I made my points logically and concise. I received mockery, deflection and was told to go play something else then ignored. And this from a very vocal and very visable person on this site that has influence and friends. and as I posted a few posts later - if you do not like me arguing for my POV that conflicts with yours then please do ignore me for the echo chamber you want. It is posts like yours and that other personality that again enforce that this is NOT a friendly or inclusive community. Get off you high horse mate.

Oh please. I am as far from an Echo Chamber as you can get. But it is exactly that kind of passive aggressive BS I am talking about. It is childish.

I have no problem with you arguing your PoV. That is great. But you quickly devolve into playing the victim card and how people are just picking on you...... its as if you believe that by being pathetic, people will pity you and start agreeing with you.

It should have gone like this.

Hey, I think this rule is bad
Okay, this is why we did it.
I don't agree, it should be written this way.
We don't think it would work as well as what we have.
I think it would.
Okay.

Tada....done. But instead, when people tried to explain why the rule existed.... you started acting all butt-hurt as if you were being personally slighted just because folks didn't agree with you. (And lets not forget, your entire rants about the NPC and how that was going to 'ruin your experiences'....which turned out to be you being completely wrong....)

You are not a special snowflake. Stop acting like one.

 

[ArlenFrostlockes]

being called a special snowflake from someone whiteknighting is very rich. that is all I am going to say regarding this disgreement.

 

[skerritthegreen]

Here's another example of blaming Wizards. You state the IDEA was wizards. Did they mandate that you restrict content to be story + PHB, or was that a decision that was made by AL. If the latter, it doesn't matter what Wizards says. If the former, what do you decide on?

Did Wizards mandate that Epics require 5 tables per Tier (10-15 tables to qualify), or was that a decision made by AL. You only need 1 table per tier to pul an Epic off. The experience won't be the same as at a big convention, but it is better than nothing which is what most of the players are getting anyway.

1) Story Origin: Actually a bit of both. WOTC said "We say the rule should be this. Do you have any issue with that? No, its exactly what's needed we agree." So yes it was their mandate, but we so no reason to argue against it.

2) No, Wotc said that Epics can only be at the major cons (Winter Fantasy, PAX, Origins, Dragoncon, and Gen Con) and no where else. We argued in favor of a wider release for two seasons and eventually convinced them that more people should be able to play them. Thus the compromise that a con that can field 10 tables is big enough.

 

[ArlenFrostlockes]

1) Story Origin: Actually a bit of both. WOTC said "We say the rule should be this. Do you have any issue with that? No, its exactly what's needed we agree." So yes it was their mandate, but we so no reason to argue against it.

2) No, Wotc said that Epics can only be at the major cons (Winter Fantasy, PAX, Origins, Dragoncon, and Gen Con) and no where else. We argued in favor of a wider release for two seasons and eventually convinced them that more people should be able to play them. Thus the compromise that a con that can field 10 tables is big enough.

I did not know this - Now I understand why those stories are the way they are. Sucks for the majority but it is what it is. I thought that AL admins made the rulings and determinations of the story epics.

 

[skerritthegreen]

I did not know this - Now I understand why those stories are the way they are. Sucks for the majority but it is what it is. I thought that AL admins made the rulings and determinations of the story epics.

No, WOTC pays cash money to have us get them written, so they have a lot of say over where they appear.

 

[aarduini]

No, WOTC pays cash money to have us get them written, so they have a lot of say over where they appear.

Well, my arguments are still valid. But it sounds like you are fighting on our behalf somewhat. You guys are my avenue to Wizards since they did in their forums and obviously created you to be the buffer. Also, it seems the admin staff and wizards staff are all are part of that special club and know each other real well. I'll bet the conversations around these decisions aren't as one sided as you make them seem. I could be wrong though.

Skirt you said I was arguing against MyRealms because I was against DDAO. I've already stated I did not know that it was a myRealms play test approach. I don't keep up on all the Facebook and twitter chatter. But if it was known a little better that it is a my realms play test, you might get more buy in. Also, I don't agree it is a viable avenue for a my realms play test. Maybe if the admins wrote the mods and let the con organizers or local admins run them off the bat rather than making it so exclusive it requires the Admin to run it would go over better.

 

[skerritthegreen]

Another issue we are also dealing with is trying to have the community see that there is value to having an Admin/RC/LC come to their convention. We've tried giving them certs and promo items and Fai Chen's but those things don't always seem to be enough, so at the moment as we playtest DDAO adventures as a concept, we are also having them run by those sorts of people only, to add to the coolness of having them around. We want people to see the volunteers as valuable.

 

[aarduini]

Another issue we are also dealing with is trying to have the community see that there is value to having an Admin/RC/LC come to their convention. We've tried giving them certs and promo items and Fai Chen's but those things don't always seem to be enough, so at the moment as we playtest DDAO adventures as a concept, we are also having them run by those sorts of people only, to add to the coolness of having them around. We want people to see the volunteers as valuable.

I have to say. Making content, then announcing it to the world and saying "If you wan this, pay for me to come run it for you" I think is giving the wrong message. Make the content available and then say "Special guest star "This dude" will be here to run it for you. This sends a better message. Make you're appearance desirable by means other than holding content hostage. Writing a 5 start GM guild mod would be a good way. From what I hear about you Skerrit, that shouldn't be a problem (not meant as an jab).

Epics - You say they aren't story capstones. Well that isn't always the case. The retaking of Phlan is a story capstone, and my understanding is that one epic dealt with the war between Mulmaster and the Elemental cults. Make it so Epics are just big fun events and don't impact the running story that the other 99% of players is trying to get closure on.

Those things I believe are under your control and would be changes I could get behind.

 

[Ainulindalion]

We want people to see the volunteers as valuable.

The volunteers are valuable. I don't think anyone disputes that. But the admin pool is too small and too location based to permit small conventions not already near an admin to be able to absorb the cost of bringing in an admin.

Even for local cons in the US, you're talking about $750-$1000 to bring in an admin, between hotel costs, plane tickets, and the cost of Fai Chen's Faire printing. If you've got 30-50 people attending a $30 three day weekend, you're looking at doubling the cost, either by increasing ticket prices, or charging per chair fees. Not every Con can do that. And honestly, an RC isn't really any cheaper (though there are a few more of them), but doesn't provide as much value in terms of exclusivity, currently.

On a rather unrelated note, you need a minimum of 41 people (30 players, 10 DMs, and 1 staff) to run an epic, by rules. Admittedly, 3 person tables kinda suck. Having read the season 4 epic playtest, I'm also pretty sure it would run just fine with as few as 6 tables (2/tier), but 8 would be better (3/3/2). 8 tables could be played with the same 41 people, too, and I'm pretty sure a better time would be had by all. As well as 8 DMs being easier to come by than 10.

I get that the 10 table minimum is a compromise between the Admins and WotC, and I'm cool with that. I'm hoping our local convention will be big enough this year to support an epic next year. And now, back to trying to find the money to bring Alan to my local Con.