D&D 5E Warlock and Repelling Blast

[seebs]

Ahh, but now we get into the interesting question:

While the call lightning is still up, can you cast a dispel magic on a creature that was injured by it, to dispel the damage? (Of course not.) Does the damage go away when the spell ends? (Of course not.)

So we have this intuitive knowledge that something like "spell does damage to creature" results in damage which, although caused by magic, is not itself a magic that can be dispelled. But so far as I can tell, it's only ever explained under the "instantaneous" rule, which doesn't really apply to Call Lightning.

 

[Arial Black]

Where the hell is that supposed to go?
Ok, fine.

Yes, you can dispel that.
Because it is a magical effect fancying about in the open world, that has already used up a creature's cast action, that dispel doesn't explicitly say it doesn't effect, and isn't something more like a permanent enchantment on a magical item.

I agree. Call lightning, meaning 'the spell-granted ability to call bolts of lightning for the spell duration' can be dispelled, even if an individual bolt cannot (because each bolt is instantaneous, even if the spell itself isn't).

Where is this going? Well, JC wants eldritch blast to work in the same way: when cast, the caster can shoot a beam at a target within range, and may keep shooting beams until he runs out of beams to shoot, and he can shoot them one at a time, with enough time between each beam to see what it does before shooting the next, all during this 'cast a spell' action.

This means that it works like call lightning, except with a duration of '1 action' rather than '1 hour'. It means that the spell effect is to let the caster shoot a limited number force beams during his action. This means that eldritch blast can be dispelled. Individual beams cannot be dispelled, but the casters spell-granted ability to shoot force beams can be dispelled.

To do so, the dispeller would have to have a readied dispel with a trigger of something like 'when I see him shoot a beam, I'll dispel the eldritch blast spell on him that allows him to keep shooting beams'.

 

[Ristamar]

This means that it works like call lightning, except with a duration of '1 action' rather than '1 hour'. It means that the spell effect is to let the caster shoot a limited number force beams during his action. This means that eldritch blast can be dispelled. Individual beams cannot be dispelled, but the casters spell-granted ability to shoot force beams can be dispelled.

The duration of Eldritch Blast is still instantaneous (not to be confused with the Casting Time of "1 action"), regardless of the number of bolts fired.

 

[Ovinomancer]

The duration of Eldritch Blast is still instantaneous (not to be confused with the Casting Time of "1 action"), regardless of the number of bolts fired.

Just remember, you walked into this one.

 

[Noctem]

He didn't walk into anything. Arial Black is still twisting logic to go full circle back to "eldritch blast can be dispelled". The answer is still no, 79 pages later.

 

[Noctem]

The duration of Eldritch Blast is still instantaneous (not to be confused with the Casting Time of "1 action"), regardless of the number of bolts fired.

Correct. You can't use dispel magic on instantaneous spells.

 

[Ovinomancer]

He didn't walk into anything. Arial Black is still twisting logic to go full circle back to "eldritch blast can be dispelled". The answer is still no, 79 pages later.

Really? He didn't just serve up a perfect ball for Arial to swing on with his usual arguments? Huh, perhaps I've completely failed to understand and read Arial's core arguments. Or maybe I've just failed in how I expect him to respond.

Or maybe I made a joke that takes all of this into account and lampoons everyone's involvement in this morass of a thread. No, on second thought, couldn't be that. Right?

 

[Noctem]

As for the spell Call Lightning, this is the 5e wiki entry:

Casting Time: 1 action

Range: 120 feet

Components: V, S

Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes



A storm cloud appears in the shape of a cylinder that is 10 feet tall with a 60-foot radius, centered on a point you can see 100 feet directly above you. The spell fails if you can’t see a point of air where the cloud could appear (for example in a room that can’t accommodate the cloud).

When you cast the spell, choose a point you can see within range. A bolt of lightning flashes down from the cloud to that point. Each creature within 5 feet of that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 3d10 lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much on a successful one.

If you are outdoors in stormy conditions when you cast this spell, the spell gives you control over the existing storm instead of creating a new one. Under such conditions, the spell’s damage is increased by 1d10. At higher levels the damage increases by 1d10 for each slot level above 3rd.

~~


So not sure why people are saying an hour duration. Either the entry is wrong or there's confusion somewhere. The spell duration is marked as "concentration up to x amount of time". It can be dispelled if it has lingering effects. The lingering effects that can be targeted by dispel magic in this particular case isn't the spell caster (it never is, dispel magic targets effects and not people), it's the cloud created by the spell. However, the clause at the bottom which states if the spell is cast during stormy weather you gain control of the storm itself, now THAT is an interesting question.

Recommend we ask on twitter how dispel magic and call lightning functions when cast during stormy weather. Can it even be dispelled at that point if you could get within range of the natural storm clouds?

 

[Ovinomancer]

As for the spell Call Lightning, this is the 5e wiki entry:

Casting Time: 1 action

Range: 120 feet

Components: V, S

Duration: Concentration, up to 10 minutes



A storm cloud appears in the shape of a cylinder that is 10 feet tall with a 60-foot radius, centered on a point you can see 100 feet directly above you. The spell fails if you can’t see a point of air where the cloud could appear (for example in a room that can’t accommodate the cloud).

When you cast the spell, choose a point you can see within range. A bolt of lightning flashes down from the cloud to that point. Each creature within 5 feet of that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A creature takes 3d10 lightning damage on a failed save, or half as much on a successful one.

If you are outdoors in stormy conditions when you cast this spell, the spell gives you control over the existing storm instead of creating a new one. Under such conditions, the spell’s damage is increased by 1d10. At higher levels the damage increases by 1d10 for each slot level above 3rd.

~~


So not sure why people are saying an hour duration. Either the entry is wrong or there's confusion somewhere. The spell duration is marked as "concentration up to x amount of time". It can be dispelled if it has lingering effects. The lingering effects that can be targeted by dispel magic in this particular case isn't the spell caster (it never is, dispel magic targets effects and not people), it's the cloud created by the spell. However, the clause at the bottom which states if the spell is cast during stormy weather you gain control of the storm itself, now THAT is an interesting question.

Recommend we ask on twitter how dispel magic and call lightning functions when cast during stormy weather. Can it even be dispelled at that point if you could get within range of the natural storm clouds?

Why? The obvious answer is that the lingering effects are your control over the storm. DM would end that control.

 

[seebs]

So I got into thinking about this more.

Why do we have the wording about being unable to dispel instantaneous spells? It's pretty obvious that you can't dispel the hit point damage done by a fireball or by a call lightning. So what's it there for?

Consider, if you will, dispel magic itself. Instantaneous. If you could "dispel" it, what would happen? Would the magic previously dispelled come back?

So I think what's missing here is that we have two separate things being discussed. One is the distinction between magic which alters the world in a permanent but non-dispellable way ("instantaneous"), and the other is individual effects that, say, do damage, which also can't be dispelled whether or not the spell producing them is dispellable.