D&D 5E Why 19 not 20?

[Parmandur]

Out of curiosity, how do you get that interpretation at the end? I ask this not having access to my rulebooks right now, so I might be off ...



But if the magic item raises your natural ability to 19, why would you be able to use an ASI to get to 20? Wouldn't the ASI just raise your (base) natural ability, which, when you wear the item, increases to 19?

Yup, ASI wouldn't help, unless the score was already 19.

 

[Illithidbix]

Actually in 1e and 2e AD&D Ogres had 18/00 strength and Hill Giants had 19 strength.

*Checks 2E PHB* - Good point!
I forgot how weird the percentile strength table was...

Out of curiosity, how do you get that interpretation at the end? I ask this not having access to my rulebooks right now, so I might be off ...

But if the magic item raises your natural ability to 19, why would you be able to use an ASI to get to 20? Wouldn't the ASI just raise your (base) natural ability, which, when you wear the item, increases to 19?

I don't believe that's what Yardiff was saying. I think they were saying that the Headband and Gauntlets gave 19 so that there was a reason to still put ASI into INT/STR until you had 20. Which gives an extra +1 over the 19 from the items.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[jodyjohnson]

Lots of room for house rules in Magic Items and Stat caps. The DMG magic items are examples not a limitation. Especially since the party can't buy them. A DM has to 'give' them to the party - and she can give them whatever she wants.

 

[Yardiff]

My whole issue is that 5e says its getting back 'Older Style' stuff. Well 1e/2e Gauntlets of Ogre Power gave the wearer' human' maximum strength and as far a quick scan can tell me there wasn't even a Headband of Intellect in 1e/2e. So the 19 max when 'human' max is 20 doesn't make since to me.

 

[Yardiff]

That's certainly a reasonable interpretation. In which case the post answers itself. It's "better" to increase those scores with ASIs than to rely on those particular magic items.

(In the alternative, you can use those items, not get the absolute max, and use your ASIs in something else)

Illithidbix is correct, that's why I said 'strive' to get to a 20 by ASI.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Why do the Headband of Intellect and the Gauntlets of Ogre Power only give the wearer a 19 instead of 20? Is it so you'll strive to increase that by ASI so you can get that extra +1?

Just wondering.

I think the more pointed question is "Why 19 instead of 18?" By RAW they are functionally identical.

My house rule is that odd-numbered ability scores give you an extra +1 to ability checks (not saves or attack rolls). That makes Str 19 better for grappling than 18, but not as good at attacking as 20.

 

[Tony Vargas]

My whole issue is that 5e says its getting back 'Older Style' stuff. Well 1e/2e Gauntlets of Ogre Power gave the wearer' human' maximum strength So the 19 max when 'human' max is 20 doesn't make since to me.

Maybe that and all the odd-number monster stats are to statistically balance-out all the PCs even-numbered stats, in some sort of world-creation variation on the gambler's fallacy? ;P

and as far a quick scan can tell me there wasn't even a Headband of Intellect in 1e/2e.

IIRC it was a 3.5 thing. 3.5 introduced Fox's Cunning/Owl's Wisdom/Eagle's Splendor so casters could boost their own caster-stats instead of wasting slots boosting the fighter with Bull's Strength or rogue with Cat's Grace. Items to boost every stat were an inevitable adjunct to that, and part of the whole 'Xmas Tree' magic-item phenomenon. I could be wrong, there were a lot of spells & items introduced in late 1e and 2e.

 

[thalmin]

Actually, the odd numbers in strength DO make a difference. The actual score, not the bonus, determines your encumbrance limits. Also how far you can jump.

 

[Sunseeker]

Actually, the odd numbers in strength DO make a difference. The actual score, not the bonus, determines your encumbrance limits. Also how far you can jump.

True, but that's a highly technical element that from what I can tell, a lot of groups don't even track. There are a few other places where score not mod come into play, but it's all very minor, very technical stuff. For the overwhelming majority of situations 19 remains functionally identical to 18.

Personally I think it is largely just fluff, if they had given everything perfectly even scores, even if mathematically and as a game it makes more sense, I think a lot of things would have felt odd.