D&D 5E So 5 Intelligence Huh

[Yardiff]

Sorry, but you are completely mistaking my motives. You failed your Insight check


Try guessing the answer*, then I'll tell you if you are right or wrong. Then you can tell me why you asked the question and we'll take it from there. Deal?

*Hint: all classes have a feature called "Ability Score Improvement".

Again this is my opinion.

Very few classes have anything innate. The Sorcerer class, to me, seem to be the only one that should be considered in anyway innate. ASI is TRAINING as in lifting weights, etc.

The Lefty build using the Rogue class and classes feature expertise so claiming that his investigation skill is innate doesn't track.

 

[Yardiff]

Yep. There are a lot of assumptions being brought in from other games and being erroneously applied to D&D 5e in my view. A common issue, really.

Actually a common issue in any game with multiple editions.

 

[iserith]

The writers state outright that "Intelligence measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and the ability to reason." They do not say, "Intelligence doesn't actually measure anything, but the Investigation skill measures mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and the ability to reason."

And how does the game measure it exactly? With modifiers to a d20, not with mandates about how one must roleplay the character as some might suggest.

 

[iserith]

Actually a common issue in any game with multiple editions.

Agreed. I try to examine my assumptions in this regard because it's easy to assume that because the way things worked in one version of the game is the way they work in another - that's not always the case. I definitely would make that claim when it comes to asserting that D&D 5e's Intelligence score mandates one roleplay a particular way or that it is equivalent to IQ. That is definitely an artifact of previous editions.

 

[BoldItalic]

Again this is my opinion.

Very few classes have anything innate. The Sorcerer class, to me, seem to be the only one that should be considered in anyway innate. ASI is TRAINING as in lifting weights, etc.

The Lefty build using the Rogue class and classes feature expertise so claiming that his investigation skill is innate doesn't track.

That's a reasonable opinion, but as you asked about my beliefs about the matter, and my belief is: it depends on your definition of "innate".

For example, a possible definition is that aspects of the character that are present ab ovo when the character is created, and cannot be modified by experience (levelling up) or downtime training, are innate. Anything that is fluid and develops in-play is not innate.

If we follow that definition, abilities are not innate, skills are innate (mostly, but bards can add more), racial traits and background features are innate, and class features that are assigned at level one (or higher, if you create a higher-level character from scratch) are innate but class features acquired subsequently are not.

So that definition of innate seems to lead to the conclusion that class features are partly innate and partly not.

But that was just an example.

You see, I don't have a single belief about the answer to your question. I don't believe 'yes' and I don't believe 'no', I believe 'it depends on your definition' and I also believe that a great many different definitions are tenable. There is a whole universe of possible answers and I "believe" all of them.

But does it matter? Does it help to distinguish innate class features from non-innate ones? And even if it does help you, does it really matter to you what BoldItalic believes about the question? Before I can give you a more helpful answer, I need to know why you asked the question.

 

[Yardiff]

Are there any forums that the WoTC staff frequent? Do that a general "Ask Soandso' Thread? If so just casually as them how they'd roleplay a low mental ability score and that should let you know how they think.

I did this on the Paizo boards and you know what? Everyone of them said they'd portray a character with a low mental ability score similar to what I'd play them.

 

[BoldItalic]

Are there any forums that the WoTC staff frequent? Do that a general "Ask Soandso' Thread? If so just casually as them how they'd roleplay a low mental ability score and that should let you know how they think.

I did this on the Paizo boards and you know what? Everyone of them said they'd portray a character with a low mental ability score similar to what I'd play them.

They use twitter. And you can email Sage Advice.

And I'm pleased to hear that I've introduced an idea here on ENWorld that nobody on the Piazo boards has thought of. The idea of role-playing for skills. Possible in 5e!

 

[Yardiff]

As always this is just my opinion.

Maybe I'm just dense but every 'argument' you use to 'prove' that your way of character building is just as viable as mine just 'proves' to me how much you don't want to roleplaying low mental ability scores even when you give your character one.

 

[iserith]

Are there any forums that the WoTC staff frequent? Do that a general "Ask Soandso' Thread? If so just casually as them how they'd roleplay a low mental ability score and that should let you know how they think.

I did this on the Paizo boards and you know what? Everyone of them said they'd portray a character with a low mental ability score similar to what I'd play them.

What does that prove though? That some people want to play "dumb" when the character has a low Intelligence score. And that's great provided it's fun for everyone and helps create an exciting, memorable story! The rules still don't mandate they do so. The rules do say, however, what to do when it comes to an ability check... apply a -3 modifier.

Also, what advantage does a player get for not roleplaying a low-Intelligence score character the same way you would?

 

[MechaPilot]

As always this is just my opinion.

Maybe I'm just dense but every 'argument' you use to 'prove' that your way of character building is just as viable as mine just 'proves' to me how much you don't want to roleplaying low mental ability scores even when you give your character one.

Allow me to respond with an opinion of my own.

Every argument for why a low ability score can't be expressed through only some of its facets feels like an arbitrary limit on the creativity of character creation. Take Int as an example. Int measures mental acuity, information recall, and analytical skill. The idea that a low int must mean that all of those facets are equally low removes, unnecessarily in my opinion, the possibility of a bright character with a just absolutely abysmal memory, like occasionally forgets his own name memory.