D&D General How Do I Help Mentor a GM Making Rookie Mistakes?

[dave2008]

Level Up works perfectly fine as a grittier game that can challenge your players PCs.

WotC's recent offerings perhaps less so. 5e as a system is not the problem, as much as I love the OSR.

Agreed, it is easy to make 5e more challenging and/or "gritty" regardless which version you play.

 

[TheSword]

Yes. And I don't mind things being tougher. I just want to know the rules going into it. I can't plan for expectations of play if I don't know the rules.
For example, I'm a cleric with a specialization in medicine. I wasn't told that I would need salves to heal my companions. I can't fulfill my role if I don't know how she's changed the game from the default assumption.
Some of the other issues are just preferences. I don't like a lot of dice rolling without a clear purpose. In those cases I don't know when to spend limited resources.

Honestly if it’s her first canpaign, get over it. She has to find her own style and approach.

Give feed back at the end, not as you work through. Nobody likes a back seat driver. Nothing that you have mentioned is game critical. Just enjoy the experience of watching your protege find their feet. Don’t try and turn them into a 10 year DM in 6 weeks.

In normal circumstances I would advise a regular player to be open and honest up front. In this case I think if you want to be there to see her play you need to give her space to try it out and if she asks you for advice then give it… cautiously.

Let’s be honest you’re a pretty discerning individual when it comes to being satisfied with your gaming. There’s is a lot about games that fails to meet your expectations. I don’t say that’s a bad thing, just that it’s not necessarily a bar you should set for other players… particularly a new DM.

 

[Mort]

We've taken a few weeks off the game due to scheduling issues, so we haven't returned to the campaign.

Seems like a great time for an email requesting a write up of all of the rules changes as well as (gently) suggesting a discussion/write up of any more the new DM still wants/is thinking about, so they are not just sprung in the group.

 

[tetrasodium]

Seems like a great time for an email requesting a write up of all of the rules changes as well as (gently) suggesting a discussion/write up of any more the new DM still wants/is thinking about, so they are not just sprung in the group.

I made a post yesterday about them. More than one of the "house rules" he described plausibly appear likely to be base rules within level up. If I had a player who asked me to list evertrukes change between base wotc dnd5e and base levelup5e. I can't imagine being all that willing to go beyond letting them borrow the book to read or taking some time to help them get a grip on what they feel are missing pieces that aren't gaps in the way of letting some murky bit to click.


Taking the time to exhaustively list them out like some kind of proactive errata before a player has taken the time to read enough rules for a simple " I don't understand why x&y, can we chat" just sounds like rewriting the books into a new book even less likely to be read any deeper than needed to handcuff the GM or cry foul if something is rewritten poorly or missed in the rewrite.

 

[Mort]

I made a post yesterday about them. More than one of the "house rules" he described plausibly appear likely to be base rules within level up. If I had a player who asked me to list evertrukes change between base wotc dnd5e and base levelup5e. I can't imagine being all that willing to go beyond letting them borrow the book to read or taking some time to help them get a grip on what they feel are missing pieces that aren't gaps in the way of letting some murky bit to click.


Taking the time to exhaustively list them out like some kind of proactive errata before a player has taken the time to read enough rules for a simple " I don't understand why x&y, can we chat" just sounds like rewriting the books into a new book even less likely to be read any deeper than needed to handcuff the GM or cry foul if something is rewritten poorly or missed in the rewrite.

If that were the case, sure. But here it seems most of the changes are from the new DM going, wait that was too easy let's change the rule to xyz. With xyz being what the be DM thinks is "appropriate" going forward.

That's the real issue, rule changes sprung on the players, often mid game and seemingly changed randomly depending on DM whim. Mitigating that will likely help player moral.

 

[tetrasodium]

If that were the case, sure. But here it seems most of the changes are from the new DM going, wait that was too easy let's change the rule to xyz. With xyz being what the be DM thinks is "appropriate" going forward.

That's the real issue, rule changes sprung on the players, often mid game and seemingly changed randomly depending on DM whim. Mitigating that will likely help player moral.

Im still skeptical since I faced similar claims from players who didn't even take the time to read their own class's section. "I just can't keep up with all the rules that keep changing" when those "changes" were in the book for anyone to read and only became relevant when they came up during play in a way I needed to stop so I could clarify the rules to the new game we were playing

 

[Clint_L]

One of the great benefits of being old is that I’ve screwed up enough to know that I am wrong about things a lot more than I realize. And I’m trying to embrace it, because it means that I still get to learn. But it’s hard work to let go of that feeling of rightness.

It’s essential, though, when working with beginners. I will have a new student teacher working with me in September, and my number one rule is to let them find their own voice. Number two is that I can learn as much from them as they from me, if I’m open minded.

 

[Mort]

Im still skeptical since I faced similar claims from players who didn't even take the time to read their own class's section. "I just can't keep up with all the rules that keep changing" when those "changes" were in the book for anyone to read and only became relevant when they came up during play in a way I needed to stop so I could clarify the rules to the new game we were playing

It's always difficult when getting information from just the one viewpoint.

But here, the OP expressly stated that the rules were 1)house rules 2) sprung on the group/person mid-session.

I'm all for letting a new DM find their bearings (heck that's exactly what's happening in my Sunday group right now, we rotated to a (very) new DM who's having the exact opposite problem of the OP - she's too hesitant to truly challenge the group) but enough house rules, rules takebacks to give the players whiplash - really should be addressed at some point.

When the group is on a break seems like a pretty good time to do that.

 

[tetrasodium]

It's always difficult when getting information from just the one viewpoint.

Agreed

But here, the OP expressly stated that the rules were 1)house rules 2) sprung on the group/person mid-session.

Yes they did AND they gave a bunch of examples that mostly point to base levelup5e core rules that differ from wotc dnd5e. The exception was really the GM saying no to a fear they consider to be problematic I would expect those differences to be highlighted by the gm whenever they become relevant in the middle of ad session if players act in a way that seems unaware or have been told about it previously.

I'm all for letting a new DM find their bearings (heck that's exactly what's happening in my Sunday group right now, we rotated to a (very) new DM who's having the exact opposite problem of the OP - she's too hesitant to truly challenge the group) but enough house rules, rules takebacks to give the players whiplash - really should be addressed at some point.

When the group is on a break seems like a pretty good time to do that.

It could absolutely be both yes, but the gm is not here and the examples strongly imply that at least some of trouble is players blaming the gm for needing to tell their players rules they don't seem to know are rules. Ar least one player is & that makes "uhh much of that sounds like core rules" extremely constructive

 

[TheSword]

It's always difficult when getting information from just the one viewpoint.

But here, the OP expressly stated that the rules were 1)house rules 2) sprung on the group/person mid-session.

I'm all for letting a new DM find their bearings (heck that's exactly what's happening in my Sunday group right now, we rotated to a (very) new DM who's having the exact opposite problem of the OP - she's too hesitant to truly challenge the group) but enough house rules, rules takebacks to give the players whiplash - really should be addressed at some point.

When the group is on a break seems like a pretty good time to do that.

This is not advice for a typical DM though. If she’s a teenager (or as close to it as possible) trying to run a game for the first time then I don’t think he does need to know the rules in advance, or to have his expectations managed. That isn’t something you say to a young adult doing something high pressured for the first time.

Don’t go in with any expectations, just provide 200% encouragement. If you miss every attack, so be it. If you can’t heal, do something else. If your character dies… keep smiling and roll another one. Teaching someone else is not about them entertaining you… though you might well be entertained along the way.