D&D General How Do I Help Mentor a GM Making Rookie Mistakes?

[Snarf Zagyg]

I think that the advice I would give was already covered on the first page of responses, so I will zoom out and think about this more holistically.

Why does anyone DM (GM)? Why are there more DMs than players?

I would posit that most people just enjoy playing, and don't want to DM. But there are some people ... they have feelings ... preferences ... about the game. About worldbuilding. About campaigns. About having the game run smoothly and "right." And those people? They become DMs.

Over time, and after a lot of mistakes (invariably), they git gud at making games run "the right way" (according to them). But usually, at some point, they look around and think to themself, "Self, I wish I was playing. That was fun!"

Thing is ... when you play, you aren't the DM. You aren't the backseat DM. You don't get to determine "the right way" for the game to run. For some, that can be incredibly frustrating- because what they really want is to play in the exact game that they would run if they were the DM. But that's not how it works. You have to find enjoyment as a player.

If this is a DM's first time through, provide affirmative positive support. Try and remember that you weren't perfect when you started, and that's how people learn. More importantly, the things you think are important may not be the things that she will end up focusing on.

And find joy (if you can) playing and socializing with everyone. Five years from now, you won't care about how effective your character was. But hopefully you'll remember the time you had with friends and family, and the DM will remember (fondly) the first campaign she ran.

 

[Willie the Duck]

Why are there more DMs than players?

Think this might have gotten transposed in the typing.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Think this might have gotten transposed in the typing.

See, I can't rewrite, 'cause to rewrite is to deceive and lie, and I betray my own thoughts. To rethink the flow and the rhythm, the tumbling out of the words ... it's a betrayal, and it's a sin, Willie. It's a sin.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Did you ask her why she's running the game that way??

I recommend changing systems. She seems like the perfect Paranoia game master!

 

[R_J_K75]

That said, the one player who really did give good feedback was very helpful and I'll be keeping in mind the feedback he gave for a long time, possibly forever. It was specific to a particular thing I did, so it wasn't universal wisdom or anything, but it was good, specific, clear, and well-explained.

So.......? You didnt tell us what the advice was. Or is it like that scene in Mallrats when the plane is going down, ...."Theres some things you just don't ask".

 

[Theory of Games]

As I’ve mentioned in other posts, I’m a Forever GM who tends to be a “bad player” on the rare occasions I get to play. I don’t necessarily cause problems, but I have strong preferences, and it’s easy for me to get bored or judgemental.

Recently, I decided to take a break from running games and have chosen to limit my time in the hobby. I’ve passed the GMing duties to the college-aged daughter of another player in the group. I’m trying to be adaptable to the GM’s style, go along with playing a system that isn’t my favorite, and taking a class that isn’t my favorite to accommodate the fun of everyone else at the table. In short, I’m trying to be supportive as a player. And as a former GM, I’m trying to do everything I can to help her succeed - giving her access to minis, battlemaps, ambient music, rulebooks, etc.

But there’s stuff that I really want to push back on. For example, she has a habit of adding houserules in the middle of play. To make things more confusing, we're playing Level Up, which is a system that is new to us and a little more complex than we're used to. She keeps adding and changing things so we can't get our bearings.

“You just got a critical hit, so you’re going to take a lingering injury that can’t be healed without proper medical care.”
“You’re not going to keep your starting wealth. So you’re broke.”
“You don’t get hit points every level.”
“You have to burn Hit Dice to recover hit points on a rest.”
“I’m not going to tell you the DC or why you’re rolling.”
"I didn't realize that feat was so good - you can't use it anymore."
Additionally, it seems that EVERY encounter has taken place with me out of my armor with an AC of 10.

Basically, this is a GM’s first campaign, and there’s a lot of stuff she’s doing that’s against “GM best practices” and that I can tell are annoying other players as well as me.

So, do I bring this up to her? If so, how do I do it that doesn’t make me seem like a jerk trying to usurp control from a first-time GM? I want to be supportive, but I am seeing her make rookie GM mistakes. Do I try to push back to have a better time in the game - or do I value the necessity of her making these mistakes?

I'd take over running the game to show the rookie how it's done. Experienced GMs have that obligation to noob GMs. If we don't teach them, the hobby will die because GMs drive everything.

 

[Retreater]

Did you ask her why she's running the game that way??

I recommend changing systems. She seems like the perfect Paranoia game master!

She thinks it's difficult to challenge characters and that there are too many HP in 5e. (I don't disagree.) Also, the rules changes are meant to reflect the grittier campaign setting. (Which I think shows creativity and dedication to the premise. I'm not against it - I just want to know how the mechanics work and for them to be consistent.)

I'd take over running the game to show the rookie how it's done. Experienced GMs have that obligation to noob GMs. If we don't teach them, the hobby will die because GMs drive everything.

To be fair, I was her previous GM. So maybe I have already done all the mentoring she needs.

 

[Kromanjon]

She thinks it's difficult to challenge characters and that there are too many HP in 5e. (I don't disagree.) Also, the rules changes are meant to reflect the grittier campaign setting. (Which I think shows creativity and dedication to the premise. I'm not against it - I just want to know how the mechanics work and for them to be consistent.)

To be fair, I was her previous GM. So maybe I have already done all the mentoring she needs.

That' s interesting. Do you house rule a lot? If she's seen you twist and bend the rules a couple of times she might think that's just the way every game should be played, or she might be inspired by some other source (youtube?). New GMs house ruling out the gate seems a bit unusual, to me at least.

 

[MichaelSomething]

She thinks it's difficult to challenge characters and that there are too many HP in 5e. (I don't disagree.) Also, the rules changes are meant to reflect the grittier campaign setting. (Which I think shows creativity and dedication to the premise. I'm not against it - I just want to know how the mechanics work and for them to be consistent.)

Ask her to define what she means by "challenge characters" and "grittier" because that can be done a dozen different ways.

IMO it sounds like she should switch to a system that would better support her preferences; like the Dungeon Crawl Classics RPG!

 

[EzekielRaiden]

So.......? You didnt tell us what the advice was. Or is it like that scene in Mallrats when the plane is going down, ...."Theres some things you just don't ask".

I mean I can tell you but it's so specific I don't think it will be helpful.

I was running may adaptation of the very excellent The Gardens of Ynn supplement, keeping most of the setting mechanics but adapting it to Dungeon World rules and the needs of my game (which is in the style of the Arabian Nights and the Golden Age of Islam). So I called it the Garden-City of Zerzura, and turned the "Idea of Thorns" (the memetic mind-virus that is the major big bad thing of Ynn) into the "Song of Thorns" (a memetic mind-virus spirit that was also a song, hence why it could infect the minds of anyone who heard it or anyone who sang it etc., originally a spirit of savagery and entropy which became superpowered for reasons the players still haven't quite figured out.)

In the original Ynn rules, you roll to determine where each pathway leads, as you take that pathway. So I did that, because...it's what the structure as written was. The player in question told me that he felt that this ruined the tension of exploration--not the threats within each place, but the feeling of risk vs reward because it wasn't possible to make right or wrong decisions of any kind. He didn't mind at all that it had rogue-like qualities, he just didn't care for the fact that the place was generated as you explore it, rather than generated and then explored. If you left and came back, you'd just be bumbling around waiting for the places you wanted to go to (re)appear, that sort of thing.

So I took that to heart and will be keeping that in mind anytime I ever do similar sorts of things. If I'm going to have randomly-generated locations, I should prepare at least some of the space in advance, so that it feels like there are right and wrong choices, so that it feels like it's a place being explored, not a place being produced, as it were.

Like I said, really ultra-specific and not useful to most people, but well-thought-out sincere criticism that had nothing to do with saying I was doing things badly, and everything to do with "this didn't work well for me as a player". It'll shape any similar random or semi-random dungeon crawls we ever do, which might happen again, such as a visit to the same author's The Stygian Library.