D&D 5E So 5 Intelligence Huh

[Saeviomagy]

I played a barbarian with a vocal character not unlike the cookie monster "Me like. Me go there. Me eat meat. Me kill. You no do that.". He made the same sort of mistakes that are in the earlier stupid barbarian thread. His mental stats were average. I think my DM commented at some point "how is Furnok coming up with that clever plan? What's your intelligence?", and I pointed out that it was average. The roleplay was because he was an illiterate barbarian unacquainted with typical language and society, not that he was an idiot.

As for what int means in 5e:

<unnamed to avoid bias>, the wizard.
Wizard 1
Variant human
Str 10
Dex 10
Con 10
Int 4
Wis 18
Cha 18
Feat: Keen mind

Background: Guild artisan (Cartographers, Surveyors and Chart-Makers)
Skills: Insight (+6), Persuasion (+6), Medicine (+6), Investigation (-2), Common +1 other language.

So... she speaks 2 languages fluently. She is convincing, personable, observant, is a doctor, and can remember everything she's seen or heard for the last month.

Her low int means that she's terrible at trivia (presumably unless she's looked at a book about the subject or heard or seen whatever it is within the last month) and bad at putting clues together, and isn't too great at drawing maps (because it's tool use, right?), and she only has one spell on hand at a time.

To me, she's obviously a genius with an extreme lack of focus. I don't think that I could reconcile the things that she CAN do with an IQ that would be considered 'low'. Certainly not to the point of assessing her as being less intelligent than a baboon.

 

[Maxperson]

I personally think Lefty is interesting. If you interpret INT as X, then every character with low INT will behave like X. In a role playing game, that sounds a bit boring.

Nobody has said that an int of X always has to be roleplayed identically. That's a mischaracterization of the other side. There is some variance for sure.

If however you interpret INT as "any letter A through Z, or any combination of these letters" where every letter is a different way intelligence might affect the game it allows low INT characters to behave in a number of different ways, including the way Lefty behaves.

The problem comes when you just up and ignore the stat number completely. While some variance is okay, if you are varying things to the points where a low int stat is being roleplayed as average or even highly intelligent, you have gone past what the stat means and rendered it meaningless. There's no point in even having an int stat if you are just going to ignore all meaning and portray it however you like. Doing so creates disconnects in the game.

 

[iserith]

Doing so creates disconnects in the game.

Disconnects for whom? The DM? The other players? Why do they care even a little bit how someone roleplays a particular ability score as long as they're not being a jerk at the table?

 

[Maxperson]

To me, she's obviously a genius with an extreme lack of focus. I don't think that I could reconcile the things that she CAN do with an IQ that would be considered 'low'. Certainly not to the point of assessing her as being less intelligent than a baboon.

5e doesn't support two different intelligence charts. There is only a single intelligence chart that applies to all creatures, so the PC is objectively no smarter than that baboon is. That the game allows a corner case absurdity like you came up with only illustrates the problem with the corner cases. It does not illustrate that a 4 int = genius.

 

[Maxperson]

Disconnects for whom? The DM? The other players? Why do they care even a little bit how someone roleplays a particular ability score as long as they're not being a jerk at the table?

I care because it affects me by causing disconnects.

 

[iserith]

I care because it affects me by causing disconnects.

So if someone else doesn't play Int 5 in a manner you think it should be played, you can't enjoy the game?

It sounds like you should do yourself a favor and not look at other people's character sheets then.

 

[BoldItalic]

5e doesn't support two different intelligence charts. There is only a single intelligence chart that applies to all creatures, so the PC is objectively no smarter than that baboon is. That the game allows a corner case absurdity like you came up with only illustrates the problem with the corner cases. It does not illustrate that a 4 int = genius.

No, it illustrates that a genius can have an Int of 4 and still be a genius. And that therefore genius and Int score are disconnected.

There is more than one measure of cognitive ability in 5e. There are at least 12 such measures. The Int score is only one of them. How do you justify role-playing just one measure and ignoring the other 11?

Ignoring 11 out of 12 measures makes no sense to me. You are doing it wrong. I'm offended by people who play 5e wrong, even if I'm not there and can't see them doing it. You are bad, wicked, evil and disruptive. You are trying to destroy my enjoyment of the game. I hate you.

See, I can be just as unreasonable as you. But not with a straight face, alas

 

[Maxperson]

So if someone else doesn't play Int 5 in a manner you think it should be played, you can't enjoy the game?

There are lots of ways people can play the game in absurdly ridiculous manners that will cause me not to enjoy the game. Playing a 5 int as highly intelligent is just one of them.

It sounds like you should do yourself a favor and not look at other people's character sheets then.

It wouldn't matter. Someone playing that wrongly would cause me tons of disconnects all over the place. If a person is going to play a 5 int as a genius, he is also going to play ridiculously in many other areas as well.

 

[Maxperson]

No, it illustrates that a genius can have an Int of 4 and still be a genius. And that therefore genius and Int score are disconnected.

It proves no such thing. We know for a fact that a baboon and a PC that have the same int score are equally intelligent. If roleplaying a slug or baboon as a genius isn't good, then the same applies to a PC.

There is more than one measure of cognitive ability in 5e. There are at least 12 such measures. The Int score is only one of them. How do you justify role-playing just one measure and ignoring the other 11?

I reject your notion that skills = intelligence. RAW does not support you. By RAW, only intelligence = intelligence. What you have done is come up with a ridiculous corner case scenario and have fixated on it in order to try and make it out as something other than a corner case.

 

[iserith]

There are lots of ways people can play the game in absurdly ridiculous manners that will cause me not to enjoy the game. Playing a 5 int as highly intelligent is just one of them.

An obvious solution would be not to concern yourself with the ability scores of characters other than your own then. This way it's in your control, rather than hoping someone else plays in the manner you prefer where ability scores are concerned.

It wouldn't matter. Someone playing that wrongly would cause me tons of disconnects all over the place. If a person is going to play a 5 int as a genius, he is also going to play ridiculously in many other areas as well.

Slippery Slope Fallacy?