D&D 5E So 5 Intelligence Huh

[TheCosmicKid]

I can use a 12" ruler graduated in inches to measure the length of my thumb, but that doesn't mean that the 12" ruler = my thumb.

No, but assuming the measuring device is properly functioning, there's a regular correspondence between the measurement and the thing measured. If you measure your thumb with a ruler and get a result of three inches, then your thumb is three inches long, which is longer than two inches and shorter than four. (Five is right out.) It would be a complete non sequitur to claim, "Aha, but the ruler is not the same thing as my thumb, therefore my thumb is not three inches long!" And this is essentially what your argument is doing. A character has a certain ability to reason, analogous to a length. The game states that it measures the ability to reason with an Intelligence score, analogous to a ruler. And you're saying that a low Intelligence score does not imply a low ability to reason, analogous to saying that a short measurement on a ruler does not imply a short length.

I'll try once more, then leave you to your beliefs.

Suppose I have an apple, an orange and a banana, and a set of weighing scales. I weigh the fruit on the scales. The scales have measured the weight of the fruit.

And if the weight of the fruit is very low, it doesn't make sense to speculate that the banana may actually be very heavy, just because there's also an apple and an orange on the scale and therefore we're not getting the weight of the banana alone.

 

[Yardiff]

To be fair, there's intelligence and your intelligence ability score. Take, for example, speed. In D&D it's derived in several ways. If you're talking about reaction time, fast drawing weapons or slight of hand then Dex more than differentiates characters speed. Over a foot race or chase, though your move becomes more important. If it's how long it takes you to run a marathon or cross a desert, you could even apply your con score. All of these apply to 'speed'.

So intelligence. Yes, there is an ability score and the rules tell us what that means. There is also language proficiency, feats and skills that play a part as well. Overall is your 'intelligence' not a combination of them all?

I understand both sides of this argument. Personally, I would role play a low int character as just that. However, I wouldn't sit and not contribute ooc. D&D is a team game, no?

But... I also get the position that intelligence as an ability score only tells part of the story.

Personally, I'd go with either at my table if it was part of a cool overall character idea.

Ability scores and race are your innate abilities, skills are training, language (in 5e) has nothing to with intelligence, language comes from class, race, and background. Skills are modified by abilities not the other way around.

 

[Maxperson]

I'll try once more, then leave you to your beliefs.

Suppose I have an apple, an orange and a banana, and a set of weighing scales. I weigh the fruit on the scales. The scales have measured the weight of the fruit.

Going by your principle, apple, orange and banana are the entirety of the fruit, therefore scales = apple, orange and banana.

And we know that average fruit = 10. Therefore if we remove half the apple, orange and banana and have only 5, we have low apple, low orange and low banana. If we add half an apple, orange and banana and are now at 15, we have high apple, high orange and high banana.

 

[iserith]

Ability scores and race are your innate abilities, skills are training, language (in 5e) has nothing to with intelligence, language comes from class, race, and background. Skills are modified by abilities not the other way around.

"Each of a creature’s abilities has a score, a number that defines the magnitude of that ability. An ability score is not just a measure of innate capabilities, but also encompasses a creature’s training and competence in activities related to that ability." (Basic Rules, page 57)

"A skill represents a specific aspect of an ability score, and an individual’s proficiency in a skill demonstrates a focus on that aspect." (Basic Rules, page 58)

 

[Lanliss]

And we know that average fruit = 10. Therefore if we remove half the apple, orange and banana and have only 5, we have low apple, low orange and low banana. If we add half an apple, orange and banana and are now at 15, we have high apple, high orange and high banana.

Actually, according to Bolditalic's comparison, it would be "If we add half a scale we have 15, and now have high Apple, high orange, and high banana"

 

[Yardiff]

"Each of a creature’s abilities has a score, a number that defines the magnitude of that ability. An ability score is not just a measure of innate capabilities, but also encompasses a creature’s training and competence in activities related to that ability." (Basic Rules, page 57)

"A skill represents a specific aspect of an ability score, and an individual’s proficiency in a skill demonstrates a focus on that aspect." (Basic Rules, page 58)

Show me that pg 57 quote only from the PHB.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Show me that pg 57 quote only from the PHB.

Page 173.

 

[Yardiff]

"Each of a creature’s abilities has a score, a number that defines the magnitude of that ability. An ability score is not just a measure of innate capabilities, but also encompasses a creature’s training and competence in activities related to that ability."

So I take it that you feel that training (skills) and competence (proficiency/exp) change your core abilities so that all you need is to get ONE skill at a positive number and you can now roleplay that low governing ability as at least average if not above average?

Personally I can see exp changing your core ability scores because that built into the game via ability score improvements and some feats but skills no.

 

[Hriston]

If you meant, "Without appropriately roleplaying the low score.",

What I meant was, "without having to limit my character's choice of action," but as long as you understand that what's appropriate here is entirely a matter of opinion, your reading will suffice.

then...

1) It's cheating

Oh really? What rule says that my character must choose actions that fit your concept of low intelligence?

2) It causes disconnects

Can you explain what a disconnect is and why it's bad?

3) It's piss poor roleplaying.

This doesn't concern me so long as we're clear that this is your opinion.

If you meant what you typed, then there is no negative consequence for roleplaying the low score you chose.

You see, to me, the idea of having to limit my character's choice of action is negative.

Nice Strawman. I didn't say solving a puzzle was cheating. I said roleplaying your int as higher than it is is cheating the system.

So, in your view, how many puzzles am I allowed to solve before I'm cheating?

It's the difference between wet and dry. If you can't see that...

Wet and dry are opposites. The difference between being prescripted and playing within pre-set limits is a difference in degree at best. Both place limitations on my character's choice of actions.

Page 177 of the PHB. Low int = low ability to reason. Low ability to reason affects puzzle solving. You want to help solve a puzzle now and then? Fine. You want to run around being a puzzle solving guru? You failed by putting a 5 into intelligence. You should have chosen better.

How many puzzles are you comfortable with my character solving? How will you stop him when he exceeds that amount?

Nobody forced you to put a 5 into int. You were free to choose that limitation.

I choose to place a 5 in my character's Intelligence. I do not choose to agree with your opinion of what limitations, if any, are placed on my character's choice of action by having an Intelligence of 5.

 

[was]

We houserule that any rolls less than eight automatically become an eight.