D&D 5E Absence of Low Level Summoning Spells

[Mouseferatu]

How much reskinning are you willing to do?

Spells like flaming sphere could easily be described as tiny elementals doing your bidding. Even more instantaneous spells, like burning hands, can be tweaked in that direction, although it's a little less of a perfect fit.

How much of what you're looking for is flavor, as opposed to mechanics?

 

[Psikerlord#]

I like how there aren't any low-level summoning spells. Keeps summons off the table while everyone is still learning the ropes.

Also, since it takes a long time before you get lots of level four spell slots, there won't be any casual routine minions spamming.

I agree. I think it was an intentional design decision - for learning the ropes, keeping the combats simpler and for balance reasons.

Too much summoning = too much trap fodder, scouts, meatshields, or indeed more legit firepower. At lower levels especially, given bounded accuracy, the damage of small monsters is not inconsequential, it would probably be OP/overshadow the PCs when spammed via level 1 and 2 spells.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I agree. I think it was an intentional design decision - for learning the ropes, keeping the combats simpler and for balance reasons.

Too much summoning = too much trap fodder, scouts, meatshields, or indeed more legit firepower. At lower levels especially, given bounded accuracy, the damage of small monsters is not inconsequential, it would probably be OP/overshadow the PCs when spammed via level 1 and 2 spells.

You make a good point.

And yet, the problem I see with this hypothesis is: if the devs were fully aware of how much low-level summons distort the game, they would never have given Moon Druids (of all classes) access to Conjure Animals, or they would have made Conjure Animals scale more slowly. (E.g. 1 CR 2, 2 CR 1s, 3 CR 1/2s, and 4 CR 1/4s would still be powerful but not as brokenly powerful.)

I think they had the right general idea, as you say, but goofed a bit in the implementation.

 

[Xeviat]

I don't have my DMG with me, so I don't have the spell by level balance. Lets say we were trying to balance a 1st level conjuration spell. Monsters are balanced assuming they get 3 rounds of combat. Summons also add extra virtual HP to the party if they take hits. So they have to be comparable to the healing and damage of a 1st level spell, kind of, but not necessarily both at the same time; if a monster chooses to kill a summon, the summon does less damage but takes a hit or two from the monster; if the monster ignores the summon, it just takes hits.

I think the 1st level spells were balanced around 3d10 (16.5) damage if save for half, with +25% if they can miss (20.6). So the summon should probably only be doing about 7 damage with it's attacks, and it probably shouldn't have significantly more HP than 10 hp. That fits in with the capabilities of some of the CR 1/4 creatures, so it shouldn't be a big deal. That's about what the Summon Nature's Ally (or whatever they're called) level 3 spell would be if you downscaled it.

I don't think Conjure Elementals should be higher level than Conjure Animals just because of the fluff difficulty of it being harder to summon elementals than calling animals. Fluff shouldn't balance crunch, fluff should enhance crunch. If it needs to be higher level, they should be more powerful.

 

[Amrûnril]

Lets face it. If you want a summoner, you go Land Druid. Pretty much every class has its own unique playstyle and way of doing things. No one does summoning like a Land druid. So, if you want a dedicated summoner for a character, that's what Land Druid is for. To me, that is the why of it....
Every sub-class is different. Conjurer wizards aren't the summoning masters. Its druids.

Land Druids may be the have ended up being the best summoners, but given their level 10 and 14 abilities (Focused Conjuration and Durable Summons), I think it's clear that Conjurers are intended to be effective as well. A player who wants to follow this pathway shouldn't have to wait until level 7 to get started.

How much reskinning are you willing to do?

Spells like flaming sphere could easily be described as tiny elementals doing your bidding. Even more instantaneous spells, like burning hands, can be tweaked in that direction, although it's a little less of a perfect fit.

How much of what you're looking for is flavor, as opposed to mechanics?

I was primarily asking about this from a hypothetical/design perspective, but if I were hoping to play such a character, I think I could see a refluffed flaming sphere as a reasonable compromise. An instantaneous spell, like burning hands, wouldn't really have either the flavor or the mechanics.

 

[steeldragons]

I was primarily asking about this from a hypothetical/design perspective, but if I were hoping to play such a character, I think I could see a refluffed flaming sphere as a reasonable compromise. An instantaneous spell, like burning hands, wouldn't really have either the flavor or the mechanics.

Consider this...

DM: The goblins race in, howling for your blood.
Pl3 (Bob the Rogue): I dive into the shadows. <rolls Stealth> 18.
DM: nods. The goblins don't notice you hide. Two of the goblins are heading for John the Fighter. Two more branch off to rush Louis the Mage.
Pl1 (John the Fighter): I attack with my longsword <roll> Yes! Adjusted 17! <rolls damage> 7hp.
DM: The goblin drops. Louis, you're up before the goblins attack.
Pl2 (Louis the "Summoner/Elementalist/Whatever" Mage): "I call the Flaming Serpent of Sephirot to scorch the evil of my enemies!" <rolls> 12 damage!
DM: The conjuror casts his diagram and a writhing serpent of fire washes out before you, easily striking the two goblins coming for you...annnnd...<checks spell> 15 cone, huh? Yeah, you can catch the third goblin about to attack John. <rolls saves> With shrieks of agony and fear as the writhing serpent streaks through one goblin after the other, leaving charred corpses in its wake. After the third goblin falls, the snake rise into the air, coils itself into a tight circle before the flames flare and disperse, leaving no trace of their existence.
Pl3: Woah! Louis!?
Pl1: That was some fancy spellwork, mage.
Pl3: For real! What the hell was THAT?!
DM: He cast Burning Hands.

 

[Quickleaf]

What about good old find familiar? Sure, it's not quite a fighting anime monster, but there's lots of cool stuff low-level characters can do with their familiar.

I'd say if you want an "arcane" feel to your PC and you want to have summoning type powers at low-level, do one of the following:

(1) Be a pact of the chain Warlock, and ask your DM to give you access to summoning spells (several conjure fiend spells were released in Unearthed Arcana).

(2) Be a Wizard, and ask your DM to swap out a feature of your sub-class for the warlock's pact of the chain feature.

If the pet monster you want to summon isn't covered by imp, quasit, pseudodragon, or sprite, simply ask your DM if a monster of similar CR (1/4 to 1) would be permissible.

For anything else you can always use unseen servant until you get access to 4th level spells.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

For anything else you can always use unseen servant until you get access to 4th level spells.

It occurs to me now that it's kind of odd that more wizards don't use their bonus action to lay caltrops during combat with an Unseen Servant. Rogues and Monks have famously-busy bonus actions, and wizards have famously-busy familiars, but why is Unseen Servant not equally ubiquitous?

I should do this.

 

[Mouseferatu]

It occurs to me now that it's kind of odd that more wizards don't use their bonus action to lay caltrops during combat with an Unseen Servant.

*jaw-drop*

I hate myself forever for not thinking of this. (Especially given that I just recently concluded an online Pathfinder game in which I was playing a witch who always prepped that spell.)

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Land Druids may be the have ended up being the best summoners, but given their level 10 and 14 abilities (Focused Conjuration and Durable Summons), I think it's clear that Conjurers are intended to be effective as well. A player who wants to follow this pathway shouldn't have to wait until level 7 to get started.

How about a Moon Druid 6/Conjuror 14?

Moon Druid (Giant Constrictor Snake form) is useful BTW for restraining a huge or gargantuan enemy so that all your pets can attack it at advantage. 60 HP may not sound like a lot at 20th level, but I value it more than I value the extra spells I'd get as a Land Druid.