D&D 5E TIME STOP SPELL (9º)

[Ancalagon]

2.) In combat, use a Sequence: Time Stop, Delayed Blast Fireball, Dimension Door, Mirror Image, Blink, (Quickened?) Animate Objects VIII. From the perspective of an outside observer, I cast one spell and suddenly I'm 650' away from where I started, a 16d6 DB Fireball goes off, I have three illusionary duplicates and maybe (50%) just went Ethereal, and 16 salad forks are suddenly flying around stabbing everyone in my new location. Oh, and I maybe hit you with a Twinned Booming Blade too because why not.

At any rate, that sequence is good enough to make me think it would be fun to unleash. Meteors from space is one thing, but "BBEG speaks a word and boom! suddenly you are being stabbed, frozen, exploded, and set on fire" is kind of a fun idea.

So in essence, you are using a concentration to "break" the concentration on delayed blast fireball, making it go off and trigger the end of Time stop? Clever work around... but is animate object VIII the best "second concentration spell" you could use?

 

[Hussar]

Now, I don't agree with the "dagger in the eye" interpretation. I'm certainly not going to allow the wizard to one shot that elder wyrm dragon with a single spell with no saving throw. That's a tad overpowered.

OTOH, I do think that it's perfectly reasonable to rule that a target is considered helpless (ie unconscious) for the duration. So, any attack would be considered a critical hit. You'd only get one, but, you could certainly make it count. This is a 9th level spell. Granting one auto crit doesn't seem to be a stretch to me.

 

[MostlyDm]

The rules don't support this and I doubt many DMs would allow it. If the rules did support this, then the spell would be quite powerful and worthy of a 9th level spell.

A big part of the appeal of playing a tabletop RPG instead of a CRPG is that situations like the one Paul describes can be adjudicated using logic and reason rather than pure mechanics.

Attacking a sleeping target in the chaos of combat? Okay, I'll call that an auto crit per the rules. But if you sneak into someone's room while they sleep and slit their throat? Barring special exceptions, they're probably dead.

I don't think the game is well served by slavish adherence to mechanics over logic.

 

[CapnZapp]

Hiya.

Time Stop can easily be a "I Instantly Kill Him" spell...unless your DM is a buffoon and doesn't actually want to use any sort of "campaign logic". There is nothing in the spell that stops the wizard from killing anyone...the spell just 'ends' when he does it. Yes, it will be obvious that the wizard is the person/thing that killed the King/Dark-Lord/Whatever, but at that point it's pretty much moot.

Wizard: "That's it, Kind Baddie. We've tried to be reasonable with you. We tried to negotiate. Either stop your enslavement and torture of the Happy Halflings of Happyvale, or we will put an end to you and your rule!"

King Baddie: "How DARE you speak to me that way! Guards! Round up ALL the halflings and flay them alive! Find this so-called wizard's friends and family and give them a place next to the little-ones! That will teach you, pesant, to mes..."

Wizard: [Time Stop] ... 'I walk over to him, pull out both my +3 daggers, place the tips of both right before each of the Kings eyes, then pull/shove them deep into his skull, wiggleing and scrambling his brain matter'

DM: 'Ok...as soon as the dagger tips start to pierce his eyeballs, the spell ends....but at that point it's too late. He dies with a quick scream, some unsettling gurggling sounds, and a last breath. The guards all look around...terrified of what just happened'

Wizard: "OK. Right. We warned him... so...you...Magister? You want to be King now? So long as you don't follow in this dead guys footsteps...or, well, you'll follow in this guys footsteps....if you get my meaning..."


All completely 'usable' for the spell. And that's not just against "NPC's". I don't care if you are 20th level with 300hps....if you get two daggers thrust directly into your eyesockets and jiggled violently around...you are dead. You don't "just take two critical dagger hits", or "roll damage"...having no intact brain simply means you are dead.

There are a myriad of other things the wizard can do that doesn't involve killing. Yes, a lot of them will "end" the spell, but with 2 to 5 rounds of "do whatever I want"...man, that is magical power!

To put it in perspective, what would YOU, actual flesh and blood real life poster here on EnWorld be able to do to enhance your life if you could do this once per day? Think about it. You could make yourself rich (probably a million ways), you could steal secrets, you could find out secrets, you could save lives, etc. Walk into a bank...Time Stop...quickly grab a few wads of hundreds...get back in line...POOF! See a criminal running away from a scene...Time Stop...move car/dumpster/whatever in front of him...POOF! See some totally drunk guy start to get behind the wheel of his car...Time Stop...flatten all tires. Curious to see what your boss was writing about you in 'the report'...Time Stop...go into room, get report, leave room. The list goes on and on an on. So long as your action doesn't affect the actual person, or an object that they are wearing or carrying, you're free to do as you please...for 12 to 30 seconds. With no interference from anything around you...12 to 30 seconds is a LOT of 'time'.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

All that goes completely against:

The rules as written.

The rules as intended.

The rules as fun.

 

[CapnZapp]

Cloud Kill should work with Time Stop. As it does not affect creatures until their turn. They showed an example of this in Princes of the Apocalypse. Were if you attack the Lich Renwick. He Time Stops, Cloud kills then Dimension Doors out.

Thank you for the idea!

 

[CapnZapp]

Once upon a time, Rime Stop was the End-All spell for wizards.

Must. Resist. Making. Pun.

Aargh

 

[pming]

Hiya!

All that goes completely against:

The rules as written.

The rules as intended.

The rules as fun.

Against RAW? Why?

Against RAI? ...I guess this is "open for interpretation", because I see Time Stop as the ultimate magic (it's 9th level), and if you have 'control of time'...well, I'd guess the intent of a 9th level spell that lets you stop time means you can use it for something other than playing a practical joke or two...

Against RAF? Depends on your definition of "a fun time was had by all". If this would upset your table...then house rule you can't do this (call it a "paradox" type thing maybe...the target was destined to die some other way, so no matter what the wizard does...like two daggers in the skull...something will let the victim survive or 'come back'). If your table has no problem with this, go for it. Fun is HIGHLY subjective, after all.

As for those saying "No, you can't just 'insta-kill' someone with a 9th level spell!"... do you let paralyzed people get 'insta-killed'? I mean, someone is paralyzed by some ability or poison...and a player says "I walk up to him and chop his head off with my axe"...do you just say "no, doesn't happen"? Or do you say "Ok, you kill him"? I'd bet dimes to dollars most DM's wouldn't be able to justify why a completely helpless individual can't have his head cut off. If the DM says "No, just crit damage", you instantly set your campaign up for "comical fantasy".

King: "Off with his head!"
Executioner: *SHWAAAK*
PC Prisoner: "Ow! Stop it!" (takes 36 damage)
Exectutioner: *SHWAAAAAAK*
PC: "Hey! Cut it out! ...hahaha...sorry, no pun intended, really!" (takes another 36 damage)
King: "OFF WITH IT!"
Exectutioner: *SHWAAAK SHAWAAAAK SWAHAAAAKKKK!"
PC: [I use my Lay on Hands and heal for 75 points] "Look. This isn't going to work out. The king is evil and you know it...you should really..."
Exectutioner: *SHAWWWWK* [36 damage]
PC: "Seriously?! Knock it off, will ya! You already cut my hair and got blood all over my clothes"
Executioner: *SHWAK*
PC: *sigh* "Keep going...another...what, four of those and you might kill me...finally. Won't matter though. Once I get down to 0 I can pop right back up again...you know that, right?"

...hehe... So, yeah...just ruling "No, you can't kill someone by plunging daggers through their eyes and into their brains while they are time stopped"....that would be just outright "weird" for a ruling, imho.

I still don't see how the rules don't support this action...

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Inglorin]

King: "Off with his head!"
Executioner: *SHWAAAK*
PC Prisoner: "Ow! Stop it!" (takes 36 damage)
Exectutioner: *SHWAAAAAAK*
...

;-)

Yepp, that's what we in the biz call "plot armor".

I'd allow "dagger to the eye" if the PCs allow this to happen to their eyes as well.

 

[Hussar]

The problem with it working both ways is that it's really not fun. You track down the big wizard and he auto-kills on PC. No roll no save no way around it.

I'm pretty sure most DM's would never do it. How do you choose? Random roll and on PC is dead? Deliberately chose one PC? Yeah it's just not going to happen.

Never mind if the bloody enemy wizard has a scroll of time stop too. Ooh fun. Two auto-dead pc's.

 

[Ristamar]

The older I get, the less concerned I am about things working "both ways" in an RPG. Unless a campaign is an absolute meat grinder, I'd wager that even the most gritty simulationist tables lean on a fair amount of plot armor (under the umbrella of "good design") to keep the PCs churning along.