D&D 5E Rogues without Darkvision

[Khisanth the Ancient]

There are still advantages to having actual bright light, e.g. at your chokepoints and kill zones, so the guards can perfectly see anyone crossing the kill zone even if they are out of darkvision range themselves.

On the other hand, a darkvision-having species building an underground structure might want to design their entrances so that there are no sight lines longer than 60 feet (drow would try to make the sight lines longer than 60 but less than 120 feet) and then make it in total darkness. Then, intruders from the surface without darkvision are going to be either totally blind or light themselves up as targets.

It depends on how much they expect to deal with humans (or halflings) though.

EDIT:

I agree that this makes a lot of sense. In complete darkness, all Perception rolls for creatures with darkvision are made at disadvantage. Intelligent creatures would therefore tend to favor light sources. At the same time, there are often large stretches of areas that are completely unlit. In the LMoP Cragmaw Hideout, for instance, there are a couple of rooms with blazing bonfires, but the rest of the complex is completely unlit. The same is true for Wave Echo Cave. This is not uncommon for what I would consider a traditional dungeon crawl.

Yeah, there's no reason for dungeon portions that are inhabited by creatures that don't have access to light sources (or aren't intelligent) to be lit.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

On the other hand, a darkvision-having species building an underground structure might want to design their entrances so that there are no sight lines longer than 60 feet (drow would try to make the sight lines longer than 60 but less than 120 feet) and then make it in total darkness. Then, intruders from the surface without darkvision are going to be either totally blind or light themselves up as targets.

If you do this, you're giving up the chance to shoot up the drow with advantage, potentially for multiple rounds.

Lighting up the enemy like a NARC beacon is a powerful advantage. Why would you give it up if you don't have to?

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[TheCosmicKid]

On the other hand, a darkvision-having species building an underground structure might want to design their entrances so that there are no sight lines longer than 60 feet (drow would try to make the sight lines longer than 60 but less than 120 feet) and then make it in total darkness.

I think in general, a defensive position with sight lines no longer than sixty feet is probably a bad idea. I would want to see the enemy coming from a lot farther away than that.

 

[CapnZapp]

No, I'm afraid you did. [MENTION=15700]Sacrosanct[/MENTION] was wondering why halflings don't and have never had darkvision in this game. You can agree or disagree with the reason, but that is the reason.

I know Halflings are based on Hobbits if that's what you mean.

My argument is that in a world with the 5th edition races, Halflings are outperformed as thieves and sneaks by too many alternatives.

And more specifically: if Elves (and half elf) had been kept out of the "team darkness" this would have helped significantly in keeping the world tolkienish (at least in this respect)

As it is now, there are imo not enough of a downside to creating an "all dark" party. Previously you were restricted to Dwarves Half-orcs and the like. And in my experience that made the party member with darkvision suitably... outnumbered for lack of better word.

This change for Elves impact Halflings too. In a world where darkvision isn't expected or truly common, of course the dexterous small guy makes a good scout. Even if there's a thick dwarf in the party (and then Gimli didn't have darkvision as far as I recall)

Now? Better to politely decline the little guy's offer and go with somebody that let's us ALL travel under the safety of darkness.

 

[Herobizkit]

There was also a 4e ritual called "Dark Light" which worked sort of like a bullseye lantern - basically gave everyone Darkvision out to 30' within the spell's 30' radius, including enemies.

Wonder how/if that would translate to 5e...

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

As it is now, there are imo not enough of a downside to creating an "all dark" party. Previously you were restricted to Dwarves Half-orcs and the like. And in my experience that made the party member with darkvision suitably... outnumbered for lack of better word.

This change for Elves impact Halflings too. In a world where darkvision isn't expected or truly common, of course the dexterous small guy makes a good scout. Even if there's a thick dwarf in the party (and then Gimli didn't have darkvision as far as I recall)

Now? Better to politely decline the little guy's offer and go with somebody that let's us ALL travel under the safety of darkness.

You mean, like a Shadow Monk who can grant Darkvision to everyone in the party at essentially zero cost[1]? Now everyone including halflings and humans has Darkvision when they need it, hooray!

You don't have to get Darkvision from your gene pool.

(The more serious problem with halflings isn't the darkvision, it's the fact that they're slow, and Longstrider is significantly more expensive than Darkvision. I suppose a Mobile halfling could be okay though.)

[1] 2 ki points for 8 hours, recharges on a short rest--you can Darkvision everyone and then just rest for an hour and still have 7 hours of Darkvision left

 

[Mercule]

I don't generally find that 5e Rogues scout ahead in dungeons, no. If you want scouting, a wizard familiar is probably a much safer bet. Other editions have spells like Prying Eyes. Scouting ahead any distance tends to be suicidally dangerous so the group usually sticks together.

Extremely effective for scouting is the elven Arcane Trickster who took find familiar as his non-enchantment/illusion spell.

 

[Ahglock]

Okay, what's with the find familiar fascination. What makes them great scouts? They don't have amazing stealth skills as far as I can see and I'd think spotting a angel owl would stand out. Or do people rule it's celestial etc origins don't stand out at all. Or is it just the it's disposable aspect.

 

[Azurewraith]

Okay, what's with the find familiar fascination. What makes them great scouts? They don't have amazing stealth skills as far as I can see and I'd think spotting a angel owl would stand out. Or do people rule it's celestial etc origins don't stand out at all. Or is it just the it's disposable aspect.

I think it's the disposable senses.

Obviously chain locks imp is pretty awsome

 

[Ahglock]

I think it's the disposable senses.

Obviously chain locks imp is pretty awsome

At low levels I get it. But the rogue will quicky be at +10 or higher in stealth targeting passive perceptions in the 15 or less range outside things like beholders. I'd rather have a totally clean stealth run with a bit more risk for the rogue than consistently getting spotted but no risk to the rogue.