D&D 5E Geniuses with 5 Int

[Ovinomancer]

You must be fun at parties.

Okay, so now I will be pedantic. As I stated, a typical contronym* is a word like sanction. Here, the word itself isn't a contronym. The contronym is created through context - sarcasm. But you are incorrect when you write that the meaning hasn't changed; the meaning of the word has changed. The form of the word has not.

Why does this matter? Because if you're a descriptivist (as I am), the meanings of the words change over time. So, if enough people start using the word (the meaning) of genius to mean, ahem, not genius, then that is what it means.

It's one of the ways we get new contronyms. Some are accidents of etymology (sanction, cleave). Others are accidents of usage (dust - when used as a verb, are you removing or adding dust?). And others are, well, questionable and evolving (quick, with no other context, is a "classy lady" a lady with or without class).


*I don't appreciate your new-fangled spelling. I will literally die if you misspell contronym like that. Get it? Oh, never mind. It's a moot point!

Again, the definition of genius doesn't change in that sentence. It's the ironic use of a word that means one thing when you intend another that's doing the work here. And that work is sarcasm, not the creation of a new contranym*. It's possible you will be eventually correct and the sarcastic use will lose its sarcasm and just become a definition, but I hope that day is far off. That's way much more boring thing than sticking with sarcasm**.

*[emoji14]
** no sarcasm was used in the making of this post.

 

[pemerton]

[MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION], I agree with you on the analysis of sarcasm.

The meaning of the word/phRASE as it appears in the sentence does not change - but the meaning that is communicated and defended in the sarcastic assertion is (in some loose and context-sensitive fashion) the opposite of what the literal/linguistic meaning would convey.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Ovinomancer]

"Technically, it's a contronym* created through context. Aka, sarcasm."

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?482860-Geniuses-with-5-Int/page55#ixzz46HQ1NC4w

I've seen some circular arguments in my time, but I think that one takes the cake! [emoji38]

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Yardiff]

I know Elfcrusher cant reply on this thread anymore but I wanted to clarify why I asked what 'genius' meant. Elfcrusher kept using 'genius' in a way I didn't understand, heres an example.....

"Besides, Eloelle is a freakin' genius without needing no stinkin' 20 Int. That's the whole point of this thread." Now if Eloelle is a genius what form of 'genius' is she? From what I got from this thread all the characters were supposed to geniuses of the intelligence type.

Maybe someone can enlighten me who was on the same page as Elfcrusher?



Edit: My impression is that Elfcrusher doesn't equate D&D intelligence and genius as meaning a high int stat.

 

[BoldItalic]

My impression is that Elfcrusher doesn't equate D&D intelligence and genius as meaning a high int stat.

The whole point of this thread is to describe how you might role-play a genius character with an Int of 5.

Now, I can see that people who believe that genius characters in D&D have to have an exceptionally high Int otherwise they can't possibly be geniuses, are a bit stuck when it comes to suggesting examples.

However, some of us believe that it is possible and have given examples.

However, some people seem to be uncomfortable with our examples.

Of course, as you rightly point out, whether or not someone believes the examples are valid depends on what they think a genius is in real life and also, separately, on how that can reasonably be translated into D&D terms. Alas, there are as many opinions on this as there are people posting and no general consensus.

You and I seem to have different ideas of what is a genius in real life but that's okay - every genius is unique anyway. You are allowed to make up your own mind.

Einstein and Beethoven had rather similar hairstyles and they both spoke German, so perhaps it might be fun to describe your PC as having wild hair and narrate him with a German accent.

 

[Yardiff]

The whole point of this thread is to describe how you might role-play a genius character with an Int of 5.

Now, I can see that people who believe that genius characters in D&D have to have an exceptionally high Int otherwise they can't possibly be geniuses, are a bit stuck when it comes to suggesting examples.

However, some of us believe that it is possible and have given examples.

However, some people seem to be uncomfortable with our examples.

Of course, as you rightly point out, whether or not someone believes the examples are valid depends on what they think a genius is in real life and also, separately, on how that can reasonably be translated into D&D terms. Alas, there are as many opinions on this as there are people posting and no general consensus.

You and I seem to have different ideas of what is a genius in real life but that's okay - every genius is unique anyway. You are allowed to make up your own mind.

Einstein and Beethoven had rather similar hairstyles and they both spoke German, so perhaps it might be fun to describe your PC as having wild hair and narrate him with a German accent.

So explain what you believe the word/term 'genius' means, in the real world and in the D&D game.

 

[Maxperson]

I know Elfcrusher cant reply on this thread anymore but I wanted to clarify why I asked what 'genius' meant. Elfcrusher kept using 'genius' in a way I didn't understand, heres an example.....

"Besides, Eloelle is a freakin' genius without needing no stinkin' 20 Int. That's the whole point of this thread." Now if Eloelle is a genius what form of 'genius' is she? From what I got from this thread all the characters were supposed to geniuses of the intelligence type.

Maybe someone can enlighten me who was on the same page as Elfcrusher?

Edit: My impression is that Elfcrusher doesn't equate D&D intelligence and genius as meaning a high int stat.

The fundamental disconnect between Elfcrusher and those on our side of things is his mistaken belief that if the end result is the same, you can add, subtract or change mechanics and it's not house ruling. If he understood or admitted that he was house ruling, every bit of opposition here would evaporate.

 

[BoldItalic]

So explain what you believe the word/term 'genius' means, in the real world and in the D&D game.

Seriously, though, it isn't just an ability to solve difficult intellectual problems. It's partly that, but coupled with a strong drive to achieve and a willingness to disregard social conventions if they get in the way of doing it.

To elaborate a little, it is a characteristic of geniuses that they profoundly change the way we think about the world. This is hard to do and most people never achieve it. Only a very few people succeed.

(edit - added)

In D&D terms, the Hermit background might be good. The PC has made a great discovery, loses no opportunity to try to convince everyone that he is right and gets annoyed when people fail to understand him. Those who do understand him all agree that his discovery is a work of genius. None of this requires him to have any particular Int score. If he has a low Int and fails to solve mundane problems that require ability checks, it's because he is too pre-occupied with his own thoughts to bend his mind to the here and now. See? It works.