D&D 3E/3.5 Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E

[dave2008]

Personally, I don't think that going back to a specific edition is the guaranteed playstyle-support it's made out to be, either. I wouldn't think that thecasualoblivion would be particularly happier in dave2008's 4e game than in his 5e game - since he did make a point of adapting /each/ of them to a personal style of his own, for instance. Similarly, if he came to my 4e table (yeah, I still run 4e as well as 5e, though I've taken a break this month), he'd probably be appalled at how off-the-cuff and '5e style' I run things, and how my 5-8 player party manages to lack both leaders and defenders even when everyone shows (his Pally would be most welcome, though, I'm sure). ;P

That is a really good point. It is quite likely neither chaosoblivion nor moonsong would enjoy how I ran 4e for my group. If I was a good DM I would adapt my style to accommodate theirs, if not, they would just suffer or leave.

 

[MoonSong]

Seriously, though, 'not even weird looking' is just so much re-skinning, no? Spear proficiency could come with a tweaked background, and sticking to utility is a matter of spell & metamagic choice - not optimal choices, obviously, but choices. You could get a character like that in a campaign where the DM was willing to work with you. You couldn't guarantee it 'out the box' or irrespective of campaign, but it's hardly an impossibility. 5e's open to it.

It is still re-skinning. I don't like re-skinning; you gotta take the full package, nitpicking mechanics and slashing the flavor is munchkin behavior (at least to me), I don't really like it as a DM and I don't really embrace it as a player. And even then, just by adapting I could, but that still won't give me the familiar and everything else. And well, so far a lot of 5e DMs greatly favor wizards and are very build-phobic, many won't even allow SCAG or UA material. Yes I could possibly have something like that, with the right DM, so far I haven't found that DM -that looks more and more like a special unicorn everyday- but have found plenty of DMs that instantly shut down any attempts at dialog. You know what always let me play that kind of PC? playing any variant of 3e with any barely competent DM which is way easier to find.

 

[dave2008]

Or how can I get my criminally dumb all-utility sorcerer that commands invisible servants, has a familiar, can hide between dimensions to rest or spy, fights with a spear and is completely-absolutely not a monster not even weird looking, with anybody but a bad DM and without having to request special treatment? -3e gives me that out of the box-

And 3e didn't have dragonborn, and teiflings out of the box. What it the point of this type of argument?

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Just wrapped up the third session of Curse, aka the third session of Death House and finished it. Tonight was more of a combat grind, just four combats in succession, though one was in such a small space half the party couldn't participate(including me). We managed to beat the end battle without any serious casualties, mainly thanks to the Bard using Vicious Mockery which never failed to connect. I participated in three battles, got two crits, cast Shield of Faith on myself, spammed basic attacks, and successfully completed my third session without ever being hit. Got level three and my Vengence Oath.

Some thoughts--

I'm finding initiative interesting. Due to how fast combats go, rolling low on initiative can cost you turns as the final monster dies before your final turn, so other PCs get more turns. That being said, going late is a defensive advantage, as the monsters and PCs engage each other and you can pick your spot, moving to where you are the least vulnerable. My Paladin has 10 Dex and initiative +0.

 

[dave2008]

Just wrapped up the third session of Curse, aka the third session of Death House and finished it. Tonight was more of a combat grind, just four combats in succession, though one was in such a small space half the party couldn't participate(including me). We managed to beat the end battle without any serious casualties, mainly thanks to the Bard using Vicious Mockery which never failed to connect. I participated in three battles, got two crits, cast Shield of Faith on myself, spammed basic attacks, and successfully completed my third session without ever being hit. Got level three and my Vengence Oath.

Some thoughts--

I'm finding initiative interesting. Due to how fast combats go, rolling low on initiative can cost you turns as the final monster dies before your final turn, so other PCs get more turns. That being said, going late is a defensive advantage, as the monsters and PCs engage each other and you can pick your spot, moving to where you are the least vulnerable. My Paladin has 10 Dex and initiative +0.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Imaro]

You wanted to the know the difference between you re-hashing edition war rhetoric, and thecasualoblivion criticizing 5e. That's the difference, there was no edition war against 5e for him to re-hash, nor is what he (and Zardnaar, Corpsetaker and the very few other oddly determined critics of 5e hanging out here) has had to say tantamount to starting such a war.

So basically like I originally said your reasoning boils down to... don't talk about it negatively because it's 4e...

 

[MoonSong]

And 3e didn't have dragonborn, and teiflings out of the box. What it the point of this type of argument?

So? so far I haven't found a single 5e DM who even entertained my desire to play a character of this kind -and this is my favorite non-healbot PC type, oh that is another type that isn't fun to play in 5e-. Basically DMs now hold the keys to allow me to play this kind of character -and most don't even know or care about it, and the few who do are strongly against it- where before I wouldn't even need to ask.

Or with the healer types. Another kind of PC that I cannot really play anymore. It is just not that fun like it is in 2e or 3e.

 

[Imaro]

So? so far I haven't found a single 5e DM who even entertained my desire to play a character of this kind -and this is my favorite non-healbot PC type, oh that is another type that isn't fun to play in 5e-. Basically DMs now hold the keys to allow me to play this kind of character -and most don't even know or care about it, and the few who do are strongly against it- where before I wouldn't even need to ask.

Or with the healer types. Another kind of PC that I cannot really play anymore. It is just not that fun like it is in 2e or 3e.

What exactly is preventing this character in 5e? I'm just curious as to what outside the options in the 5e PHB would be needed by you to make it work?

EDIT: I guess my first question should have been are you even interested in seeing if this can be "solved" via the PHB in 5e or are you just wanting to rant about 5e?

 

[dave2008]

So? so far I haven't found a single 5e DM who even entertained my desire to play a character of this kind -and this is my favorite non-healbot PC type, oh that is another type that isn't fun to play in 5e-. Basically DMs now hold the keys to allow me to play this kind of character -and most don't even know or care about it, and the few who do are strongly against it- where before I wouldn't even need to ask.

Not true - I would allow it More to the point, I would have the same problem in 3e if I wanted to play a dragonborn. Does that make 3e a bad system. I don't think so, it just wouldn't support what I wanted.

Or with the healer types. Another kind of PC that I cannot really play anymore. It is just not that fun like it is in 2e or 3e.

You can play a healer in 5e. Sorry it is not fun for you, but aren't there 3e or PF games you can play if you don't like 5e? A game can't please everyone.

 

[MoonSong]

What exactly is preventing this character in 5e? I'm just curious as to what outside the options in the 5e PHB would be needed by you to make it work?

The options don't exist at all. They would have to be discussed with the DM everytime. Familiars, unseen servants and stuff all exist in the edition, but they are off-limits for sorcerers. I could use a feat to gain the spear proficiency, but only that, and only for humans, and I'm not talking about a single character, but a whole category of them.