Harassment in gaming

[DOTTIE]

The woman should have been taught by her mother how to respect men, to dress conservatively and not provocatively, and not to take provocative stances like leaning over tables with a skirt on. At 13, she shouldn't have been at the store alone, because there are nasty men out there. If someone dresses conservatively, and isn't being provocative around men, and she is still being bothered, then she should only go with a group of girls or a male friend or relative.

It's not fair to the gaming industry or white male gamers to accuse all of them of sexual harassment or worse. We don't want to give gaming a bad reputation, and any case of rape should be handled by the police.

 

[MechaPilot]

The woman should have been taught by her mother how to respect men, to dress conservatively and not provocatively, and not to take provocative stances like leaning over tables with a skirt on. At 13, she shouldn't have been at the store alone, because there are nasty men out there.

You're blaming the victim.

The way you "respect men" is by treating them with the same human dignity that you would expect for yourself. The notion that you have to dress like a nun to protect men from falling to their own raging desires is disrespectful to men because it treats them as if they were unable to resist turning into rape-monsters when they see an attractive woman.

Also, leaning over a table is not "taking a provocative stance." It's often an integral part of playing a game. In any game that uses miniatures, it's a practical necessity to get a good look at the battlefield before taking your turn, and that can certainly mean having to lean over the table. I've often had to lean over tables to play Risk, Axis & Allies, Shogun, Chess, and TTRPGs where minis were used for combat encounters, and I never did it with the intent of showing off anything other than my skill at playing those TTRPGs/board-games.

The wearing of a skirt is also a total non-issue. Skirts cover far more than bikinis, and men can be around women in bikinis without suddenly transforming into rape-hungry tentacle monsters. And if you want to talk conservatism of dress, skirts are part of the uniform for attending certain religious schools, not to mention them being part of the uniform for a vast number of non-religious schools. Most skirts are not micro- or mini-skirts. Most skirts are knee-length and allow a fair amount of lean to occur before any glimpse of panty is visible.

 

[LordEntrails]

[MENTION=82779]MechaPilot[/MENTION],
Don't respond to such statement. If it wasn't meant as sarcasm, then it was obvious trolling. DOTTIE is a brand new account, 1 post, just created to rile you up.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The woman should have been taught by her mother how to respect men, to dress conservatively and not provocatively, and not to take provocative stances like leaning over tables with a skirt on. At 13, she shouldn't have been at the store alone, because there are nasty men out there. If someone dresses conservatively, and isn't being provocative around me, and she is still being bothered, then she should only go with a group of girls or a male friend or relative.

It's not fair to the gaming industry or white male gamers to accuse all of them of sexual harassment or worse. We don't want to give gaming a bad reputation, and any case of rape should be handled by the police.

I got a fever, and the prescription is...MORE MONOLITH!

 

[Umbran]

If you don't accept that I am frustrated enough by this then you don't, enough said.

Totally not the point.

I will risk overstating to make the point: Would you walk up to a veteran of Iraq or Afghanistan who had PTSD, and say, "I know how you feel,"? Probably not, right? Without getting into an argument about degree, the basic logic is the same. Not that you aren't frustrated, but that your frustration should not be compared directly with theirs, and your feelings on the matter are not the same as theirs.

(This was a note they gave us in training for convention security - don't compare your own feelings, even if you've been through something similar)

Still I do get why you and I are not seeing eye to eye on this.... you live in Boston and I am in New York.

I was born and raised in New York. I'm a transplant to Boston in my adult life. Which means I either keep my mouth shut in discussions of baseball, or I say, "Go Mets!" and both sides will shake their heads sadly in pity and leave me alone.

 

[MechaPilot]

[MENTION=82779]MechaPilot[/MENTION],
Don't respond to such statement. If it wasn't meant as sarcasm, then it was obvious trolling. DOTTIE is a brand new account, 1 post, just created to rile you up.

You're right, I shouldn't. I often don't, just as a matter of personal policy. I've just had a bad day today.

 

[Umbran]

You're right, I shouldn't. I often don't, just as a matter of personal policy. I've just had a bad day today.

I don't think it hurts to have it said, to be honest. And you said it well.

 

[Hussar]

it's white men that can't recognize the problem

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?482661-Harassment-in-gaming/page68#ixzz47BCZsekx

But, isn't that the point here? That the harassers, and I think we've all pretty much agreed on this point, are almost always white men, in this social situation. Now, there are many, many reasons for this, primarily demographics - the hobby is very much populated and dominated by white men, so, it does make sense that just simply through numbers most harassment would be done by white men. But, since this specific group - in this case, predominantly white men - have a fairly lengthy history of harassment in the hobby, I'd say that it's not terribly unfair to say that white men are not recognizing the problem.

If they were recognizing the problem, then the problem would largely be solved. The whole point of the rhetoric is to get people talking. Job well done there. We've got considerable conversation going on here, and I would hope that it's being seen by more than just the people posting in this thread and the word is spreading. And that word is, "In our hobby, we have a problem with the majority group either directly harassing minority demographics in the hobby or standing on the sidelines and not doing anything to help resolve the issue." That you and I both belong to that majority group does not mean that we are automatically terrorists or cowards.

She's pretty specific in the blog post. Those perpetrating these actions are doing so maliciously with the intent of forcing women and POC out of the hobby. Those standing on the sidelines and not doing anything, are every bit part of the problem, since they aren't actually doing anything to prevent those who are maliciously driving people out of the hobby. Thus, they get called out as cowards.

Now, if someone is actively doing things to resolve issues, then they are not part of the problem, they are part of the solution. Whether those actions are relatively minor like complaining on a forum about chainmail bikinis or taking the time to tell buddy that maybe dick jokes aren't appropriate at that particular time, or taking more direct action like getting involved in a legal dispute or whatever. Doesn't matter what you are doing, so long as you are doing something. Those that just stand on the sidelines are not relieved of any responsibility. Closing your eyes doesn't make the problem go away. And anyone who isn't stepping in is part of the problem, whether directly or indirectly.

 

[MechaPilot]

I don't think it hurts to have it said, to be honest. And you said it well.

Thank you. I did my best to reply intellectually instead of going with my gut response, which was as you might expect FAR more harsh (and expletive-filled) than my reply ended up being.

 

[Nylanfs]

Thank you. I did my best to reply intellectually instead of going with my gut response, which was as you might expect FAR more harsh (and expletive-filled) than my reply ended up being.

Hmm, I might have paid to see that post.