D&D 5E Do you care about setting "canon"?

[PMárk]

I'm not sure, how "important" canon is for me. I like richly detailed, living, evolving worlds. I like the notio that the PCs are part of a bigger world and events are happening out there. I like to read stories from the worlds I like. I have no problem with the concept of metaplot, even if I don't like every decisions the writers did.

However, I don't bat an eyelash if a GM alters the setting, like introducing new settlements, adjusting the historical events, NPCs etc. and I'm upholding the same right when GMing.

Also, I differentiate two approaches:

- We're playing a, for example FR game. Then I don't want to alter the setting significantly and highly contradicting with the canon, but I have no problems with smaller additions, or adjustments.
- We are playing a highly modified version of a setting, which I'm also ok with, but I expect the GM to inform me about the changes she made prior to the game.

There's a point when a game ceases to be an FR or WoD game and starting to be a game with the GM's homebrew setting that took elements from WoD or FR. I have no problems with that. If I got interested in this new setting, or the group, I'll play it happily, but I want to know it in advance.

So, in the end I think canon is moderately important to me.

 

[Jester David]

And a lot of people thought the LoM version was a lot cooler.

That's the thing about "canon." If you're too slavishly devoted to it--and I mean this from the perspective of a writer/content producer, not just a gamer/reader--then you miss out on opportunities. Sometimes, a later idea is better than one that's already been accepted.

(And yes, "better" is subjective. But that doesn't automatically make it arrogant to think your new idea is better than a preexisting one, especially if everyone else on the project/in the company agrees, as does much of the fanbase.)

Which is rather the point: everyone thinks their ideas are cooler.
When writers are given free reign to ignore continuity and canon, everything goes out the window as people try to leave their mark or rewrite small pet peeves or self declared bad ideas.

You can kinda see this modern comics, where every writer dramatically changes characters and they need to reboot and re-reboot comic lines every five years to roll back endless changes. And the big name writers are given free rein to just do anything that pops into their mind.

Getting back to the LoM version, if canon had been important, there might have been some attempt to reconcile. Or it could have been presented as an option, or contrary legends. Unreliable narration. Give people the choice. But since the research wasn't done, you have the Mind Flayers reaching the world 2000 years ago, when the 157th githyanki lich-queen has been ruling for 1000 years.
Has some effort been made, perhaps the illithids could have arrived from the distant future farther back in time, or other similar tweaks. Or maybe the Far Realm was how they traveled through time. It's easy to reconcile the two stories with some effort. But the problem is I'M DOING THAT WORK rather than the person I paid money to explicitly for their writing.

Now, if you're dealing with something that is mostly a set of stories--a novel series, a series of movies, an ongoing TV show--having an idea you think is better isn't enough. Canon's a lot more important to such things.

But D&D? Is a series of pick-and-choose ideas for you to build your own games first, and a platform for prewritten stories second. So no, I don't have a problem at all with things like the conflict between the Illithiad and LoM.

Canon can be cool, canon can be helpful, but canon can also be stifling.

You can tell what TV shows don't really care about canon, with the characters just acting however is convenient and the rules of the universe changing continually.

This discussion started with the Forgotten Realms, which has the same canon importance as ongoing movies and TV shows. If one writer kills Character X, they need to be dead in the book set later.

D&D lore is a little more flexible in terms of character, but the backstory of monsters and the universe shouldn't change on a whim. The entire backstory regarding giants, or mind flayers, or elves shouldn't just change in the base game. That should be consistent and shouldn't be reworked every time some writer has a new idea they think is cool.

 

[Mouseferatu]

But since the research wasn't done...

Don't assume. The guys who wrote LoM worked at WotC alongside Bruce Cordell, who wrote the Illithiad. And while I wasn't part of that one, I worked on enough books for WotC as a freelancer during the 3E and 4E eras to know that research absolutely was part of the process where appropriate.

Changes were made. Mistakes may even have been made. But neither means there was no effort at research.

 

[Shasarak]

I think Chris Perkins said it best when he said that it is easy to see which ideas build on the shoulders of Giants and which ones are pulled from much lower down.

 

[BookBarbarian]

My games in the Forgotten Realms? Canon is not particularly important to me.

My upcoming Game of Adventures in Middle Earth? Canon is extremely important to me.

I guess it just depends on the setting.

 

[Irennan]

Compare this to... oh, the new cosmology of 4e. Because it's a convenient example.
There was not transitional event between 3e and 4e (save for the Realms, and that was localized). And yet the entire planar structure changed. For everyone. Suddenly there were primordials, the Dawn War, angels could be good or evil, outer planes were planets in the Astral Sea, etc. Why? Because someone liked that cosmology better and wanted a better backstory for the universe, despite the ones that already existed. Which I don't approve of.
Now, I like much of the World Axis cosmology: the Feywild, the Shadowfell, the Elemental Chaos, primordials, etc. But making it just mandatory and assumed is disrespectful for what came before.
It was needless. The World Axis could have been presented as the background for the Nentire Vale setting. Primordials could have been added into existing giant lore. Titans could have remained grecco-roman with primordial titans being a new addition. Authors writing for an established brand or property should BUILD on what was already written, not knock things down and start from scratch. The writers of D&D are not its owners, they're just stewards of the brand and should be respectful for what came before.

For another example, the 3.5e book Lords of Madness, gives an entirely new origin for Mind Flayers, completely contradicting the 2e book Monstrous Arcana: The Illithiad in numerous ways. And at the same time created a contradiction that didn't mesh with the origin of the two Gith races.
What that tells me is that someone either didn't do their homework, or thought their ideas were so cool they didn't have to try​ to reconcile them with what came before.
A book like Lords of Madness should have been comprehensive: the one-stop-shop for all illithid lore, compiling tidbits from a myriad different sources. You buy it to reap the benefits of the author's work and research compiling existing illithid lore. Instead, the author didn't do the research and now you have to do the work of reconciling two pieces of incompatible lore.

These are extreme examples of the issue, but the emphasis the point.
Small errors in canon are easier to ignore, but getting the lore outright wrong or just inventing crap rather than looking it up means someone just didn't do the work. Which means everything else mentioned could also be contradictory. And if you're looking at a sourcebook with a glaring continuity error, it casts doubt on the rest of the book. What other errors are there? Will this contradict something that has already been established in my game? You just don't know...

Even in the Realms, they didn't bother with a decent explanation in the context of the setting. They just said "Mystra dies, so random stuff happens that coincidentally lines up with stuff that we want to see happen to the world. Including planes rearranging (even when the Weave doesn't reach the planes), and worlds swapping continents--but only in a couple given spots, that are not as close or connected as you'd expect if it was caused by two worlds crossing each other as it was assumed, in whatever way two worlds can cross each other. And without causing any of the earth/seaquakes, eruptions, etc.. that swapping entire continents like that should cause".

 

[The_Gneech]

My games in the Forgotten Realms? Canon is not particularly important to me.

My upcoming Game of Adventures in Middle Earth? Canon is extremely important to me.

I guess it just depends on the setting.

Excellent point!

-TG

 

[ccs]

Even in the Realms, they didn't bother with a decent explanation in the context of the setting. They just said "Mystra dies, so random stuff happens that coincidentally lines up with stuff that we want to see happen to the world. Including planes rearranging (even when the Weave doesn't reach the planes), and worlds swapping continents--but only in a couple given spots, that are not as close or connected as you'd expect if it was caused by two worlds crossing each other as it was assumed, in whatever way two worlds can cross each other. And without causing any of the earth/seaquakes, eruptions, etc.. that swapping entire continents like that should cause".

OK.... So you're playing D&D and haven't heard of magic.

 

[Caliban]

Only canon I can remember and personally care about matters for the game I'm DM'ing.

 

[ccs]

Cannon affects my games only as much as I find convenient/entertaining.