Its also in the Sage Advice document, discussing things like dogs and cats which both clearly grapple irl but dont have a built in grapple in their statblock. Point being phb was written from the perspective of playable pc races, not from he perspective of monsters. IRL creaturews with antlers clearly grapple. So in absence of a rule that says they cant, they do. The rules allow everything that can grapple to drag, and sets out very clear rules for that, so you cant say an elk cannot drag.
D&D 5E The Grappler's Manual (2.0) - Grappling in 5th Edition
- Thread starter ktkenshinx
- Start date
zaratan
First Post
Some stupid idea came to my mind. Abusing spike growth, grab and drag.
Tabaxis
druida 10 (moon)
fighter 2
rogue 2
barbarian 6 (totem)
feat: mobile +10 feet
Barbarian +10 feet, Elk totem lvl 3 (SCAG) +15, bear totem lvl 6 double carrying capacity
Tabaxi can double your speed for one turn
longstride spell +10 feet (no concentration) activated always as premeditated
surprise round(you're rogue with expertise) Cast spike growth, turn Air elemental (fly 90 feet, Large)
turn one = barbarian's fury grab 2 creatures (extra attack) with advantage and +14 (expertise athletics) + fly above spike growth with the targets
turn two = use tabaxi feature
movement = 135 feet x2
action dash = 135 feet x2
action surge dash = 135 feet x2
bonus action dash = 135 feet x2
total 1080 or up to 432d4 damage (depending on target's size and weight).
add someone with haste in the group...
Edit: can't concentrate in rage, forgot. But is possible to change to monk or something like that losing the grappling advantage.
Tabaxis
druida 10 (moon)
fighter 2
rogue 2
barbarian 6 (totem)
feat: mobile +10 feet
Barbarian +10 feet, Elk totem lvl 3 (SCAG) +15, bear totem lvl 6 double carrying capacity
Tabaxi can double your speed for one turn
longstride spell +10 feet (no concentration) activated always as premeditated
surprise round(you're rogue with expertise) Cast spike growth, turn Air elemental (fly 90 feet, Large)
turn one = barbarian's fury grab 2 creatures (extra attack) with advantage and +14 (expertise athletics) + fly above spike growth with the targets
turn two = use tabaxi feature
movement = 135 feet x2
action dash = 135 feet x2
action surge dash = 135 feet x2
bonus action dash = 135 feet x2
total 1080 or up to 432d4 damage (depending on target's size and weight).
add someone with haste in the group...
Edit: can't concentrate in rage, forgot. But is possible to change to monk or something like that losing the grappling advantage.
Last edited:
You can't rage (elk3) and concentrate at the same time (spike Growth). Dragging a single creature you move half speed. Dragging two creatures, it would be reasonable to assume quarter speed. The bigger question is, are spikes "magic" since at that level so many creatures are immune or resistant to normal damage. The flight isn't needed (but base 90 helps) - you can just drag back and forth side to side over the same two squares.
zaratan
First Post
You're large, you don't lose movement dragging small creatures, if you get enlarge with a party member... dragging more them one creature doesn't impose more penalties RAW if is in your carry capacity. even them, is close to 216d4 damage (need to check changing barbarian), 540d4 if someone gives you haste. About spike growth, well, that I know, the only spells that doesn't cause magic damage are hunter's mark and hex, because they don't specify damage type, so depends of the weapon type of damage. All other spell are magic damage.
"takes 2d4 piercing damage" is the exact wording of spike growth. It doesn't say "magic piercing".
Hex specifies necrotic damage.
So yes, small creatures full damage. Medium require enlarge to get full damage. Large and huge are half damage. Gargantuan you can't drag (too heavy).
The reason my build went with giant elk not elemental was size and carrying capacity (elk presumably work like other mounts in that they drag 5x weight like a wagon or whatnot)
Hex specifies necrotic damage.
So yes, small creatures full damage. Medium require enlarge to get full damage. Large and huge are half damage. Gargantuan you can't drag (too heavy).
The reason my build went with giant elk not elemental was size and carrying capacity (elk presumably work like other mounts in that they drag 5x weight like a wagon or whatnot)
zaratan
First Post
Firaball say magic damage? Thunderwave? ANY other spell (please, say just one)? It's a spell, you really want to argue about that part?
About giant elk, well, most DM's will not let you you grapple someone in this form (you don't have arms, claws, not an efficient bite), RAW you can't. Alossaur would be easier, but he's large, not huge.
As moon druid, you can choose more than one form, for each case that you need. Volo's brings even a gargantuan Brontossaur (CR 5), but I don't see how this can grapple someone too.
yeah, against gargantuan creatures, you still is a 10th lvl spellcaster, that can hide with bonus action, lol.
Fireball doesn't do magic damage. It does fire damage. Every spell other than hunters mark specifies a damage type.
I agree that the main flaw in the elk build is that it requires a DM watching a video of elk grappling with each other to convince him that they grapple. The stupid "free hand rule" obviously creates more problems than it solves.
I agree that the main flaw in the elk build is that it requires a DM watching a video of elk grappling with each other to convince him that they grapple. The stupid "free hand rule" obviously creates more problems than it solves.
zaratan
First Post
In page 197 of PHB in damage resistance and vulnerability there is a small reference about nonmagical fire damage, so there is magical fire damage, witch any spell that produce fire damage cause, because spell are magical, and probably this is too obvious. But ok, forget that, just focus in immunity and resistence of monsters, ALL say "nonmagical weapon", spike growth isn't a weapon, as thron whip, ice knife, and so. No immunity, no resistace in those case.
I saw the video, isn't a grappling, it's just dragging, similar as fire giant dreadnought (volo's), but even them need DM aproval. If he could close they antlers like a cage, this would be a grapple, but he can't, even lifiting someone with the antlers, the target is free to move. And there is the problem of taking damage in spike growth to, antlers stay above his head, and you don't have the precision with them as you have with arms. The only way a Giant Elk can hold someone is with his mouth, but it's like a human trying to grapple and drag someone with the mouth, with a really good DM, you could do it with desadvantage. I really would like that work, but in 90% of the tables will not. It's easier to DM's accept a bigger carry capacity for large+ creatures (is preatty ridiculous that Tiamat can't carry an elephant), but for that power gamming they problagly wouldn't aprove, lol.
There are any other class (UA content too) that double carry capacity in early lvls?
