5E The Grappler's Manual (2.0) - Grappling in 5th Edition

BainIthron

Visitor
So I took a second read at Tortle (from the Tortle Package stand-alone supplement, right?), and I guess you get +2 STR and +1 WIS, but beyond that, I see little in the Tortle traits that would help you with that throw, or in general. The claws are ignored mostly because monk damage, and the armor is... eh... different. You won't be wielding a shield probably, so you're limited to 17, though early on that would probably help. You should weigh this against your theoretical monk armor (10+DEX+WIS).

As for Goliath, yeah, +2 STR and +1 CON... Natural Athlete is kind of nice but the classes you take should have access to Athletics. Stone's Endurance is kind of neat from a survival perspective, especially being short rest. Then there's Powerful Build. Powerful Build is nice, but may not be necessary. Strictly speaking, there's no limitation on your grappling, jumping, etc. based on weight, only on size. However, your GM might want justification for lifting someone who is very heavy, and Goliath would give that. Kind of varies on your GM.

With all that said, there's nothing wrong with these races either. If it fits the theme you want to go with, go do it. That's my rough mechanical analysis above. Feel free to ask more questions.
 
Ive been trying to incorperate the advice from this guide, with the options presented by the circle of shephard druid. Since barbarion rage or the enlarge spell is the usual method of obtaining advantage on strength checks. Shepherds have the ability to grant a moving zone which comes with temp hp and advantage on strength checks to as many allies as can fit in it, which seems like a worthwhile oppurtunity cost.

The big appeal of using druid levels in place of barbarien levels to achieve this is that the ability is not dependent on mantaining concentration on enlarge or having to attack every turn to mantain rage. why wouldnt you want to be using your actions on grappling? Well as a full caster you might be better occupied by the use of fog cloud or later on subduing a group of baddies with a water sphere
The problems I am trying to solve are finding expertise as well as extra attack in one multiclass dip and i am not sure its possible without useing the prodigy feat. Which would disallow firbolgs as a race. which with ideal stats for this build, powerful frame, beast speech and bonus spells make for a flaverful and versitile (drappler?)

Which is what im selling here i guess, a build that can accomplish what the best grapplers can while enabling grappling for party members weathe they be animal companions or frontliners.also haveing the strengths of a full caster when a grappling strategy isnt appropriate. and dont forget the unicorn spirit offers powerful healing options if your willing spend your 1 use per rest spirit zone on a healing strategy.
In summation show me what ive gotten wrong , whats weak and how best to solve the multiclassing problem.
Please prove me wrong my group already complains that i play druids too often.
 

BainIthron

Visitor
Ive been trying to incorperate the advice from this guide, with the options presented by the circle of shephard druid. Since barbarion rage or the enlarge spell is the usual method of obtaining advantage on strength checks. Shepherds have the ability to grant a moving zone which comes with temp hp and advantage on strength checks to as many allies as can fit in it, which seems like a worthwhile oppurtunity cost.

The big appeal of using druid levels in place of barbarien levels to achieve this is that the ability is not dependent on mantaining concentration on enlarge or having to attack every turn to mantain rage. why wouldnt you want to be using your actions on grappling? Well as a full caster you might be better occupied by the use of fog cloud or later on subduing a group of baddies with a water sphere
The problems I am trying to solve are finding expertise as well as extra attack in one multiclass dip and i am not sure its possible without useing the prodigy feat. Which would disallow firbolgs as a race. which with ideal stats for this build, powerful frame, beast speech and bonus spells make for a flaverful and versitile (drappler?)

Which is what im selling here i guess, a build that can accomplish what the best grapplers can while enabling grappling for party members weathe they be animal companions or frontliners.also haveing the strengths of a full caster when a grappling strategy isnt appropriate. and dont forget the unicorn spirit offers powerful healing options if your willing spend your 1 use per rest spirit zone on a healing strategy.
In summation show me what ive gotten wrong , whats weak and how best to solve the multiclassing problem.
Please prove me wrong my group already complains that i play druids too often.
First thing to keep in mind is that this guide is sort-of out of date, and the guide was made before Xanathar's, and before the Shield Bash ruling in the PHB errata. So good on you on proposing using some of the new stuff.

The main advantage of Enlarge is less actually having to do with advantage on STR checks (There's a lot of ways you can get that advantage, some of which you pointed out), and more to increase the variety of creatures that you can grapple. Grapple and shove are limited to creatures that are one size larger than you, so if you can Enlarge from Medium to Large, then you can grapple/shove Huge creatures, which means then you can grapple/shove most of the creatures in the game. I mean there's Gargantuan creatures, but that's something that isn't common to encounter. However, you are a druid, so you have access to large creature forms.

And yeah, as not-barbarian, one of the main advantage you gain is freeing up the ability to concentrate at all, which means you can throw concentration spells into the mix, where as Barbarians have to choose between Concentration -or- Rage.

Now, as for the issues you're trying to solve for... I'm not that well read into druids, so I'd have to look again later, but is your build going to focus on your wildshape for grappling (I know you're doing the shepherds thing, but Wildshape isn't discounted just because you aren't a moon druid)? Since Wildshape changes all the equations. Animal forms use their attacks from stats blocks (so extra attacks don't matter) Edit: Oh I see, so they can still take attack action and get extra attacks... and grappling initiation is changed to key off attacks (though I don't think that bars you from taking Grapple actions).
 
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Chryssis

Explorer
The problems I am trying to solve are finding expertise as well as extra attack in one multiclass dip and i am not sure its possible without useing the prodigy feat. Which would disallow firbolgs as a race. which with ideal stats for this build, powerful frame, beast speech and bonus spells make for a flaverful and versitile (drappler?)
The only class that gets both expertise and extra attack is Swords bard at lvl 6 which could fit nicely as it lets you keep your spell slot progression, although 6 levels is a bit rough when you are doing it almost exclusively for extra attack. although the bardic dice are nice for helping out on those really tough grapple targets.
 
Question about grappling someone prone. If i knock a creature prone then grapple them do i have to be prone myself? I cant seem to find the answer anywhere.
 

BainIthron

Visitor
Question about grappling someone prone. If i knock a creature prone then grapple them do i have to be prone myself? I cant seem to find the answer anywhere.
Nope. Not stated in the rules, and it's been addressed by Crawford before:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/09/14/does-grappling-a-prone-target-make-you-prone/

You might ask "But if I'm wrestling them doesn't that mean I'm all on the ground hugging the creature?" and the answer is no. To visualize with the way the rules are, you're basically just constantly moving around and keeping them on the ground, off balance, and pressing them down where you can. It's an active activity. Well, I'm no wrestler but you could look up some wrestling videos to see how wrestlers maintain control without going prone themselves.
 

Chryssis

Explorer
Nope. Not stated in the rules, and it's been addressed by Crawford before:
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/09/14/does-grappling-a-prone-target-make-you-prone/

You might ask "But if I'm wrestling them doesn't that mean I'm all on the ground hugging the creature?" and the answer is no. To visualize with the way the rules are, you're basically just constantly moving around and keeping them on the ground, off balance, and pressing them down where you can. It's an active activity. Well, I'm no wrestler but you could look up some wrestling videos to see how wrestlers maintain control without going prone themselves.
another way to look at it is to imagine your character fighting with their sibling. don't forget a round is only 6 seconds not really a long time. throw someone to the ground and 1-2 seconds are already gone. step on their chest, arm, crotch, neck and another 4-5 seconds. New round! they grab your leg and push you off! (you lose contest, grapple broken -- you win contest, you step on them with the other foot)
 

Konge

Visitor
Requesting Help with a Grappler AC question.

1st Time poster about to start 1st 5th Ed game ... I really like this Grappler idea (Had an Irish Wrestler in 3.5) ... So, I looked around for "Extra Arms" & came across the Loxodon (Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica p.17-18) ... Bu ran into a snag wrt AC : Hopefully you can help me with the clarification I need.

Loxodons have Natural Armour for AC of 12 + Con Bonus when not wearing armour ... Do I get to add my Dex Bonus to this, or not ?? Moreover, as I'm playing a Barbarian, this appears to mimic their "Unarmoured Defense" (10 + Dex Bonus + Con Bonus), which leaves me especially confused about adding my Dex Bonus to Natural Armour, or NOT !!
 

dnd4vr

Hero
Requesting Help with a Grappler AC question.

1st Time poster about to start 1st 5th Ed game ... I really like this Grappler idea (Had an Irish Wrestler in 3.5) ... So, I looked around for "Extra Arms" & came across the Loxodon (Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica p.17-18) ... Bu ran into a snag wrt AC : Hopefully you can help me with the clarification I need.

Loxodons have Natural Armour for AC of 12 + Con Bonus when not wearing armour ... Do I get to add my Dex Bonus to this, or not ?? Moreover, as I'm playing a Barbarian, this appears to mimic their "Unarmoured Defense" (10 + Dex Bonus + Con Bonus), which leaves me especially confused about adding my Dex Bonus to Natural Armour, or NOT !!
I would have answered this a long time ago, but just read through most of the thread and saw your question.

In 5E, AC is calculated by different formulas provided by different features. For your Loxodon, one way is Natural Armor, which is 12 plus CON bonus. There is no DEX bonus listed, so no you don't add it.

As a Barbarian with Unarmored Defense, your AC is 10 + DEX bonus + CON bonus, so you would add both.

YOU choose which feature to base your AC off of. If you have a DEX 16 and CON 16, Unarmored Defense would give you a 16 (10 + 3 + 3), which you can add a shield to, giving you an AC 18. If you used your Natural Armor feature you would have only a AC 15 (12 + 3). I am not familiar with the race, but I would think you can add a shield here as well for an AC 17 total.

Ultimately, it comes down to your DEX. IF your modifier is +3 or better, go with Unarmored Defense. If it is +1 or less, Natural Armor provides a better AC. With DEX bonus +2, they are equal.

Hope that helps (despite being several months late LOL!).
 

delph

Explorer
In manual is sometimes quoted that many enemies without move can't do "their things" what abilities, special attacks, ....can't be done without move? I know only same charge movement, but that's not much to say.
 

EloquentApe

Villager
This has GOT to be updated with the new UA options:

Unarmed Fighting Style
Your unarmed strikes can deal bludgeoning
damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier. If
you strike with two free hands, the d6 becomes a
d8.
When you successfully start a grapple, you can
deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage to the grappled
creature. Until the grapple ends, you can also
deal this damage to the creature whenever you
hit it with a melee attack.

And the combat maneuver Restraining Strike

Immediately after you hit a creature with a
melee weapon attack on your turn, you can
expend one superiority die and use a bonus
action to grapple the target (see chapter 9 in the
Player’s Handbook for rules on grappling). Add
the superiority die to your Strength (Athletics)
check. The target is also restrained while
grappled in this way.


Battlemaster fighters just became great grapplers, or picking up Martial Adept as a feat. Restrain off of one grapple check.
 

delph

Explorer
This has GOT to be updated with the new UA options:

Unarmed Fighting Style
Your unarmed strikes can deal bludgeoning
damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier. If
you strike with two free hands, the d6 becomes a
d8.
When you successfully start a grapple, you can
deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage to the grappled
creature. Until the grapple ends, you can also
deal this damage to the creature whenever you
hit it with a melee attack.

And the combat maneuver Restraining Strike

Immediately after you hit a creature with a
melee weapon attack on your turn, you can
expend one superiority die and use a bonus
action to grapple the target (see chapter 9 in the
Player’s Handbook for rules on grappling). Add
the superiority die to your Strength (Athletics)
check. The target is also restrained while
grappled in this way.


Battlemaster fighters just became great grapplers, or picking up Martial Adept as a feat. Restrain off of one grapple check.
Restraining strike, get somewhere expertize on athletic and you can catch anything.
 

lumenbeing

Explorer
There's a Kuo-toa with a grappling weapon, a pincer. While DMing and pitting these creatures against my players I was unsure how to resolve the mechanics. That pincer has a 10' reach. I wanted to swing a grappled PC into an area where they would be subjected to damage. I treated that as a shove. This guide seems to back up that resolution procedure. But I'm seeing a problem in the rules here. If the grappler can move, and move the grappled creature with them, then then why not just change your facing (I realize that facing is only an optional rule but bringing it up help to illustrate my point) or the direction of your movement? Move yourself, and thus drag the creature to the square you previously occupied. Sure, you could say, no, the grappler's orientation to the grapplee stays the same unless you use the shove action, but that would make it impossible to drag an opponent down a 5' wide passage perpendicular to the grapple vector. And it makes very little sense in the case of this pincer weapon where the grapplee is 10' away. Basically, what I'm asking is, isn't it possible to do some of the purple belt stuff with just movement, without using a shove?
 

Jibu

Villager
1st time poster.
I read that Path of berserker and battlemaster have nice synergy. Can anyone suggest how i should go on my build if i started out as a fighter? i'm already a level 2 half-orc.
 

RSIxidor

Explorer
This has GOT to be updated with the new UA options:

Unarmed Fighting Style
Your unarmed strikes can deal bludgeoning
damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier. If
you strike with two free hands, the d6 becomes a
d8.
When you successfully start a grapple, you can
deal 1d4 bludgeoning damage to the grappled
creature. Until the grapple ends, you can also
deal this damage to the creature whenever you
hit it with a melee attack.

And the combat maneuver Restraining Strike

Immediately after you hit a creature with a
melee weapon attack on your turn, you can
expend one superiority die and use a bonus
action to grapple the target (see chapter 9 in the
Player’s Handbook for rules on grappling). Add
the superiority die to your Strength (Athletics)
check. The target is also restrained while
grappled in this way.


Battlemaster fighters just became great grapplers, or picking up Martial Adept as a feat. Restrain off of one grapple check.
The UA before that also has the Rune Knight fighter, which also does very well at grappling with the Unarmed Fighting Style.
 

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