Sacrosanct
Legend
I own up to Out of the Abyss. You are flat out wrong and need to look again. The closest to 6 to 8 a day is the Temple module. All the others use a lot more one or two day encounters or a variety of very weak encounters far below what would constitute challenging for 6-8 encounters a day for a proper level. And even the Temple module was weak and we were clearing it with standard characters with only the magic from the module past lvl 7 or so.
Out of the Abyss was really, really bad about encounters per day. The majority of the xp was generated by random travel encounters that were rolled twice a day. The majority of the encounters were small set-piece encounters that were not very challenging at all. Hoard of the Dragon Queen was very similar. The Temple module at least had dungeon and temple complexes, but the enemies within were incredibly weak and lacked variety. The end prophets were a joke to defeat. Very poorly designed. The fact that you don't remember them very well doesn't surprise me. They aren't very memorable like many of the best older edition modules. One thing that has been lacking this edition has been well-designed, memorable modules.
To be honest, judging by what you have describe your own playstyle being, as someone who hasn't played some of those adventure paths yet, you have not convinced me that they are poorly designed adventures. What I mean, is that by your own description of your playstyle, you don't take hardly any time to prepare your adventure, and seem to treat monsters and NPCs like pieces on a static game board who can't think for themselves, but rather play the game like an arena boardgame. I said this before. If that's what you want and have fun doing, more power to you. But you really need to stop accusing the game of being poorly designed when you are playing in a style that deviates from the expectation, because when you (or anyone) does that, you as the DM need to make adjustments to do so.
Just to chime in to state why I'm no longer active in this thread: y'all have merely restarted an argument I thought was over and done with a long time ago - I mean I didn't think people still believed the myth that the game actively supports its own expected 6-8 encounter days?
People believe it because it does. One thing I've noticed that you and Celtavian have completely ignored or not taken into consideration is that the # of encounters is largely driven my player decisions. You keep assuming that the game should flash a red light and throw a big sign telling you "Stop and rest now, your encounter limit has been reached!" That's simply not true. The game is meant to be organic in play, with monsters and NPCs acting like real living beings that make decisions based on what the party is doing. And the progress of the adventure is largely based on party decisions. That means you're going to be all over the place, because:
* sometimes the party might have an opportunity to rest after only three encounters and they take it.
* sometimes the party has had six encounters and wants to rest, but they've alerted the rest of the dungeon/temple/fort and can't rest
* sometimes there's a time limit to accomplish the mission, and they might have a dozen encounters
etc, etc
The point is that on average, including things like random encounters, most groups will have 6-8 in an adventuring day. I cannot stress this enough, but if you as the DM don't play the monsters/NPCs like they would actually behave (like the monsters in the room down the hall completely ignoring the sounds of battle and just sitting there until the party enters the room) and let the party rest whenever they want, then of course that number will be less. But again, that's not on the game, that's on your playstyle
And of course, that other explanation is that WotC completely dropped the ball when it comes to making the game challenging for veteran D&Ders.
Ridiculous. I'm a veteran player of over 35 years. So is Heldritch. They didn't drop the ball. You're just not willing to run the game as an actual role-playing game instead of a boardgame, and you have no desire to prepare yourself as the DM to even know what your monsters/NPC can do. This is by your own admission in the OP by how you described your sessions.
It is obviously a newbie-friendly game. More worryingly, many monsters come across as having been designed by those same newbies.
To me, it's just a matter of time before people start playing the game at higher levels and realize what some of us have already realized: the need for an Advanced Dungeons & Dragons supplement![]()
Don't hold your breath. Mearls has already said a long time ago, "No rule will fix a broken player." So don't expect them to create more rules to hold your hand because you can't be bothered to prep as a DM. You think the monsters have been designed by newbies? More likely, they are designed by people who understand that most DMs (regardless of experience) will play those monsters like a monster would actually behave in the game. Monsters have stats like INT and WIS, and they're not just there for saving throw modifiers. They are there to tell you how to play them in the game; how they would plan, react, and handle PCs.
You continue to attack the design team and absolutely refuse to acknowledge your own contributions to your problems despite several people explaining exactly why you had the problems you did. So stop blaming them, stop personally attacking them as incompetent, and stop trying to position yourself as a veteran and if anyone disagrees with you, then they're incompetent/newb themselves.