Share Your Thoughts On My Warlock Houserules

[Immoralkickass]

Out of curiosity, what problems do Warlocks normally have?

Most of warlocks problems lie in the balance of their powers, i.e. it is obvious what is good and what is not. It is severely amplified by their limited and precious spell slots, making players constantly wondering if a spell is worth the slot or not. Most would agree that the spell balance is horrible, like for example, Witchbolt and Crown of Madness are utter crap, utility spells not worth your slots, some spells scale poorly, and some are better off left to people who can use it more efficiently (like using low level spell slots, or even funnier, by a tome lock who dont have to waste spell slots on rituals).

Even though I would like to be optimised and take the commonly-agreed 'best spells', i hate to be a wizard wannabe. I care a bout my RP too, and i'd like for the thematically 'warlocky' spells (like Arms of hadar, Witchbolt) to be unique, or at least more powerful on a warlock.

Another problem is that warlocks are very front-loaded. They get most of the good stuff very early on, and their spell system don't really support high level play. This is why most people love to multi-class and take 'warlock dips'. Mystic Arcanum allows warlocks to be considered full casters, though very limited and thus most people would advise going multi-class.

Then there is the blast lock v blade lock debate. This one is a no contest. Unless you start the campaign at level 12, blast lock is the clear winner. At later levels, blade lock eventually beats blast lock in terms of damage, but EB's 120 ft range still makes it better.

 

[neogod22]

Most of warlocks problems lie in the balance of their powers, i.e. it is obvious what is good and what is not. It is severely amplified by their limited and precious spell slots, making players constantly wondering if a spell is worth the slot or not. Most would agree that the spell balance is horrible, like for example, Witchbolt and Crown of Madness are utter crap, utility spells not worth your slots, some spells scale poorly, and some are better off left to people who can use it more efficiently (like using low level spell slots, or even funnier, by a tome lock who dont have to waste spell slots on rituals).

Even though I would like to be optimised and take the commonly-agreed 'best spells', i hate to be a wizard wannabe. I care a bout my RP too, and i'd like for the thematically 'warlocky' spells (like Arms of hadar, Witchbolt) to be unique, or at least more powerful on a warlock.

Another problem is that warlocks are very front-loaded. They get most of the good stuff very early on, and their spell system don't really support high level play. This is why most people love to multi-class and take 'warlock dips'. Mystic Arcanum allows warlocks to be considered full casters, though very limited and thus most people would advise going multi-class.

Then there is the blast lock v blade lock debate. This one is a no contest. Unless you start the campaign at level 12, blast lock is the clear winner. At later levels, blade lock eventually beats blast lock in terms of damage, but EB's 120 ft range still makes it better.

So you just reiterated my point. The proble, with warlocks is that most players don't know how to manage their resources. Witch bolt goes up 1d12 per spell level, so using it as a 5th level slot, it's going to do 5d12 per turn, how is that weak? No wizard or sorcerer will us use a 5th level slot on that spell. Sleep is another spell considered weak, but in the hands of a warlock is really good. Yes of course some spells don't scale well, that's because they are meant to be effective at low level but replaced once you get higher. I feel that if you play the warlock the way it's meant to be played, you'll have lots of fun. Don't just try and play him based off of what some website says is the "best" way to play. I currently have 3 warlock characters and have played 5 all together in 5th edition. I think they are by far my favorite class.

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[Immoralkickass]

So you just reiterated my point. The proble, with warlocks is that most players don't know how to manage their resources. Witch bolt goes up 1d12 per spell level, so using it as a 5th level slot, it's going to do 5d12 per turn, how is that weak? No wizard or sorcerer will us use a 5th level slot on that spell. Sleep is another spell considered weak, but in the hands of a warlock is really good. Yes of course some spells don't scale well, that's because they are meant to be effective at low level but replaced once you get higher. I feel that if you play the warlock the way it's meant to be played, you'll have lots of fun. Don't just try and play him based off of what some website says is the "best" way to play. I currently have 3 warlock characters and have played 5 all together in 5th edition. I think they are by far my favorite class.

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If you don't think Witchbolt is weak, well, i really doubt your analytical ability. 5d12 is incredibly weak for a 5th level spell. It also does 0 damage if you miss your attack roll. Look at Scorching Ray, 2d6 x 6 bolts = 12d6 if you fire all on the same target, and very unlikely that all of them will miss. Witchbolt also have a piddly 30 ft range compared to Scorching Ray's 120 ft.

You said it yourself, wizards will never use this crap, and for a very good reason: Magic Missiles is far superior, and there are other spells too.

It does only 1d12 per turn, 5d12 is only the initial cast. Costing concentration for a mere 1d12 per turn at level 9 is ridiculously weak. You know what else deals damage per turn? Hex. Its a bonus action, never misses, debuffs the target and doesnt fall off if you do something else, or the target just simply walks out of the 30 ft.

You say we don't understand how to manage our resources. I say you don't know how to play a warlock.

 

[Draegn]

Ok think about this. A Demon lord makes 1000 warlocks at a time. Every time they cast a spell there's a cumulative chance he can enter the plane. It's not a question of if a godlike creature can enter, it's when, and that when is a very short time. Your suggestion makes warlocks unplayable, because who wants to play a character who can never use their powers? If you're in a town and discovered, the whole party would be killed. Sure a character may think he made a deal with a balor, but the reality is, warlocks can get 9th level spells. Who they really made a pact with, is the demon lord the balor serves.

You make the fallacy of believing that you are omniscient in knowing what happens at our table. Your insistent belief in having to have a demon lord is an error. Having said that consider equating a "warlock" with a Sith. (Being that there is a lovely new film) The "warlock" could go full on dark side or the player could make a decision to do something to remain grey or turn back to the light.

If however the player chooses to go dark and the power he made the pact with appears, and remember the power has the choice to appear, not to appear, to send an agent or ignore. The power may well be busy doing other things that require his or her attention. The power then if chosen is free to collect payment for services rendered. Whatever the payment may be.

 

[TwoSix]

If you don't think Witchbolt is weak, well, i really doubt your analytical ability. 5d12 is incredibly weak for a 5th level spell. It also does 0 damage if you miss your attack roll. Look at Scorching Ray, 2d6 x 6 bolts = 12d6 if you fire all on the same target, and very unlikely that all of them will miss. Witchbolt also have a piddly 30 ft range compared to Scorching Ray's 120 ft.

You said it yourself, wizards will never use this crap, and for a very good reason: Magic Missiles is far superior, and there are other spells too.

It does only 1d12 per turn, 5d12 is only the initial cast. Costing concentration for a mere 1d12 per turn at level 9 is ridiculously weak. You know what else deals damage per turn? Hex. Its a bonus action, never misses, debuffs the target and doesnt fall off if you do something else, or the target just simply walks out of the 30 ft.

You say we don't understand how to manage our resources. I say you don't know how to play a warlock.

Yea, witch bolt at 9th level is pretty bad. It's actually pretty decent at level 1-2, since it's doing 6.5 average per action, which is pretty comparable to an at-will melee attack when you factor in miss chance. After that, though, it starts to suck majorly.

 

[Xeviat]

You're right, I don't understand your problem because I don't read the Internet to figure out how to play the game. Where are you getting this 2 short rests per long rest from, because it's not in the book.

DMG, in the encounter building section when it talks about the number of encounters in the day.


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[ad_hoc]

I don't really like the invocations spells change. They seem pretty weak at first blush, but because they use your warlock slot, they scale up along with them which makes them deceptively powerful.

An entire invocation for 1 (limited) spell known is weak.

Using a spell slot is what makes it weak.

 

[Colder]

An entire invocation for 1 (limited) spell known is weak.

Using a spell slot is what makes it weak.

Making the invocations cast the spell at the lowest level makes them even weaker, even if it removes the usage of the spell slot.

 

[TwoSix]

Making the invocations cast the spell at the lowest level makes them even weaker, even if it removes the usage of the spell slot.

Meh.

Compulsion - doesn't scale.
Confusion - increase in radius from 10' to 15'. OK, but nothing major.
Conjure Elemental - doesn't scale.
Slow - doesn't scale.
Polymorph - doesn't scale.
Bestow Curse - scales from 1 min to 8 hr with no concentration. Scaling definitely benefits this spell.
Bane - scales from 3 creatures to 7. A benefit in fights with lots of creatures, although the limited range lowers the utility of the extra targets.

So, the spell slot benefits 3 of the possible 7 choices, granting one a minor benefit, one a moderate benefit, and one a major benefit. Not enough, in my view, to warrant the cost of one of the warlock's 2 spells + an invocation choice. Honestly, I would let the invocation give you a free long rest casting, AND scale the spell slot up to the warlock's slot level, and I would still say none of the long rest invocation choices become more than adequate options.

 

[neogod22]

If you don't think Witchbolt is weak, well, i really doubt your analytical ability. 5d12 is incredibly weak for a 5th level spell. It also does 0 damage if you miss your attack roll. Look at Scorching Ray, 2d6 x 6 bolts = 12d6 if you fire all on the same target, and very unlikely that all of them will miss. Witchbolt also have a piddly 30 ft range compared to Scorching Ray's 120 ft.

You said it yourself, wizards will never use this crap, and for a very good reason: Magic Missiles is far superior, and there are other spells too.

It does only 1d12 per turn, 5d12 is only the initial cast. Costing concentration for a mere 1d12 per turn at level 9 is ridiculously weak. You know what else deals damage per turn? Hex. Its a bonus action, never misses, debuffs the target and doesnt fall off if you do something else, or the target just simply walks out of the 30 ft.

You say we don't understand how to manage our resources. I say you don't know how to play a warlock.

True, but scorching Ray is not available to every warlock, and you have to hit with every ray for the damage to average out to more than the initial attack. Also, once Witch bolt is a DOT where scorching Ray is not. It can potentially do more damage. So in truth, it's not a weaker spell. Maybe not a spell for your play style, but if you're going to compare it, you should at least compare the spell as a whole and not just part of it.

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