D&D 5E Twist. Just DM enjoyment or OK for Players?

[rgoodbb]

I want to run by you folks an idea and get some feedback as to whether it’s good enough for the players or just me selfishly enjoying myself.

After an initial beginning adventure, The PC’s are approached by a man named Malvor Pride, who offers to become their benefactor in the fight against darkness etc. etc. He has a sob story: Mum, Dad and Sister all killed, and he has inherited a large estate. He pays well and sends them on quests until they either start to become suspicious, find out things about him or he springs something upon them. Malvor Pride is the best anagram name I can come up with from Vampire Lord.

They have been working for him and his dastardly schemes all along. Doing his dirty work and levelling up and gaining power. I also quite like the idea that townsfolk might start to become nervous of the party because of who their benefactor is.

I am conscious that this story-type is enjoyable for me, but am I right in the fact that the players make the story, and I serve the story? I would rather they worked it out through clues and suspicions over time then me just spring it upon them. That seems like the players would feel good about working it out. But would this story type be poor form DM-wise, or acceptable? I am struggling to work it out in my head.

Opinions, tips and anecdotes all most welcome, cheers.

 

[robus]

Another option: "Valdor Priem" (I think that's also an anagram Valdor sound a bit like "Valor" so deceptively hints to honorableness...

And I think this is great. I plan on something similar with Curse of Strahd. You build a skeleton and the players (and you) build on and reconfigure the skeleton. Just don't get mad if your players figure out the ruse earlier than you expected and you'll be fine. Don't lay on the vampire schtick too thick and give the game away. The players could well enjoy the reveal when it happens and then get to plot their revenge.

 

[manduck]

I don't know your players, so I really can't say what they would like. Though having sprung some surprises on my group when I DM, I can offer some advice. I once did a zombie apocalypse game. I started off like any regular fantasy game and had the zombie outbreak happen around level 5. I though it would be cool and the group would be more invested in the game world if they contributed their npcs and backgrounds, got to live with them for a while and then I brought on the disaster that they had to survive and fix. Now, in a story like a novel or a movie, something like this is great. In a game, it turned out to be not so hot. Some players lost interest in the world when it suddenly changed. Some became so worried about protecting everyone they loved that they didn't want to engage in the game world as much. The fear of loosing something became too much for them.

So what I learned is that from the start of any given game, you need transparency and open communication. If you're not sure what the group will like, just ask them ahead of time. You don't need to tip your hand on what's going on. Just ask if they would like the game to have a big plot twist or mystery to unravel. If they are receptive to the idea, then proceed as planned. Plus it may help them get into the mindset that they have something to solve and be more wary of clues. In my zombie game, I had plenty of clues that the apocalypse was coming. Random undead encounters that didn't make sense. Unseasonably cold weather and wilting crops. Detect magic always picking up just a touch of necromancy. Stuff like that. They never picked up on it until the outbreak was in full swing. They just thought it was a D&D game like any other. So they weren't putting pieces together. I think the same may happen with you group. You don't want them to feel cheated or duped. Especially since it could lead to trust issues with the rest of the game world. Who else is plotting against them behind their backs?

When I discussed the idea for my zombie campaign with others who weren't playing it, it sounded awesome to them. When the game crashed and burned, I talked it over with my players. They all agreed that the idea of the game sounded cool, now that they knew. Not knowing going in really did some damage though. So be open about your intents but keep the plot and clues to yourself for the game. That would be my advice. Then you can avoid having to scrap a good story idea for the issues that may pop up trying to pull off your idea. I'm sure your friends would think the idea is cool too. It's pretty likely you have similar tastes to them, after all. Though deception can do real damage to a game with some unexpected consequences.

 

[Jester David]

I don't like to dump on DMs or their stories but...

The story twist of "the patron sending you on missions is eeeevil" is old. It's been done and it's been done a LOT. It's not even really a "twist" anymore, since players will regularly joke that their quest giver is secretly a villain or expect a betrayal when finishing a quest.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TreacherousQuestGiver

I've never really been sure why villains would even bother making their name an anagram. It's fun but not something that people really do.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SignificantAnagram

That said, Malvor Pride is a pretty sweet villain name. Which probably doesn't help things. The players might be even more likely to expect betrayal.

 

[pdzoch]

My thoughts here regard the balancing between achieving a "twist" the players will enjoy and the betrayal they might feel by the DM. This can only be a judgement call by you with your understanding of your group. I think the idea is pretty solid as you have laid it out so far.

My group is pretty suspicious of everything -- sort of assume it's evil unless it proves otherwise. They are just now starting to understand powerful monsters, villains, and NPC and when not to antagonize them or start something they can not finish. But they tend to be a loyal bunch that once they accept a patron, they are loathed to consider any evidence against him. They would not enjoy discovering that they were working for a vampire lord or evil person unless there was some way they could redeem themselves and come out as heroes, albeit repentant heroes, in the end.

I assume you have a plan in place in case your group simply ignores the clues, blinded by loyalty?

 

[robus]

The story twist of "the patron sending you on missions is eeeevil" is old. It's been done and it's been done a LOT. It's not even really a "twist" anymore, since players will regularly joke that their quest giver is secretly a villain or expect a betrayal when finishing a quest.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TreacherousQuestGiver

This can be said about too many ideas for it to be helpful advice IMHO. New DMs will end up never coming up with a adventure/campaign idea if the demand is to be original every time. "Rescue someone?" Been there.... "Steal something?" Done that...

And yes, some players will expect betrayal because they're jaded. But perhaps rgoodbb's players are new and will not immediately suspect every NPC they encounter.

And actually some advice for rgoodbb, make sure the PCs encounter a mix of NPCs before introducing your baddie. Make sure they've come to trust some NPCs so they'll be less inclined to distrust Malvor when they encounter him. Perhaps have him act in a beneficent manner when they first encounter him. He offers them shelter from a storm or rides in to aid in repelling an attack?

 

[Tony Vargas]

Setting up an NPC who later betrays the party or is not what he seems is fine. If you do it sparingly. You'll know when you've done it too much when the players start acting crazy-suspicious of every NPC.

Well, or if you're running for experienced players, you'll know when their past DMs have done it too much when they act that way from day one. Which, IMX, most of 'em will.

Heck, sometimes even brand-new players go there, because the trope's over-used in fiction, too.

 

[Jester David]

This can be said about too many ideas for it to be helpful advice IMHO. New DMs will end up never coming up with a adventure/campaign idea if the demand is to be original every time. "Rescue someone?" Been there.... "Steal something?" Done that...

And yes, some players will expect betrayal because they're jaded. But perhaps rgoodbb's players are new and will not immediately suspect every NPC they encounter.

And actually some advice for rgoodbb, make sure the PCs encounter a mix of NPCs before introducing your baddie. Make sure they've come to trust some NPCs so they'll be less inclined to distrust Malvor when they encounter him. Perhaps have him act in a beneficent manner when they first encounter him. He offers them shelter from a storm or rides in to aid in repelling an attack?

The potential problem is you can do this twist effectively once. And then the players stop trusting quest givers. And it becomes that much harder to get the party to adventure and follow the story.

 

[Bawylie]

The better twist: some vampire hunter comes around and tells your players that Malvor Pride is a Vampire Lord, doles out a bunch of circumstantial evidence that seems to line up with the accusation.

But really, he's just got a weird name. The vampire hunter is wrong and in danger of killing just a regular dude.

Will the players believe the accusation? Will they investigate their friend and patron? Can they stop the Hunter from killing an innocent man?

Could be good!


-Brad

 

[Bawylie]

I don't like to dump on DMs or their stories but...

The story twist of "the patron sending you on missions is eeeevil" is old. It's been done and it's been done a LOT. It's not even really a "twist" anymore, since players will regularly joke that their quest giver is secretly a villain or expect a betrayal when finishing a quest.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TreacherousQuestGiver

I've never really been sure why villains would even bother making their name an anagram. It's fun but not something that people really do.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SignificantAnagram

That said, Malvor Pride is a pretty sweet villain name. Which probably doesn't help things. The players might be even more likely to expect betrayal.

See the thing about tropes is about execution.

Everything has already been done to death. There's hardly any original or new stories. So what truly counts is how well you pull off the classics.

Don't be too concerned about using a plot that's well known. Find a way to really play with it instead. Make it really fun!


-Brad