D&D 5E Helping melee combat to be more competitive to ranged.

[smbakeresq]

One of the few games I have played in where arrows were was a Gurps game. The encumberance rules are quite harsh, much more so than the harshest 5e encumberance rules. In that game I had a back quiver, a shoulder quiver, and two hip quivers. IIRC it was enough for 60 different arrows on my person at a time without being encumbered.

Then I would rule no backpack, space occupied, no belt pouch or scabbard on hip, spaces occupied.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app

 

[smbakeresq]

The archer carry examples while relatively correct, are misleading. That's what hey would carry between battles. They would march into battle carrying those arrows, place them on the ground when getting ready for mass volleys while protected from Melee attacks, then use them. That's very different then trying to adventure.

The regular encumbrance rules are garbage BTW. The implication is a person of average strength could carry 150 lbs forever, that's absurd. I know it's a fantasy game, but it should have some connection to the physical world so players can get connected also.

We play with all of it, but the adventure days are longed and you might go weeks in wilderness without seeing a merchant to buy stuff from.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app

 

[happyhermit]

I haven't read all of this thread but;

Overkill would have been a worry if I hadn't tried lots of weak mobs only to see them absolutely shredded by a single Spirit Guardians spell. (I think it was 70 Gnolls vs level 8-ish characters)

Are these some sort of homebrew Gnolls with no intelligence, desire for self-preservation, or ability to use any sort of ranged weapons. Did you actually play the gnolls as mindlessly marching one after another into the narrow range of a spell that was "shredding" their allies, eventually crawling over the heaps of bodies in suicidal robotic fashion.

On one hand, this sounds like a cool picture, if that's what you are going for, but it doesn't make any sense for MM Gnolls. This is not playing the game RAW or RAI.

...

After that, I have simply given up on the idea that 1 CR humanoids have a role to play in tier III and tier IV play. The game desperately needs more CR 5 versions of common humanoids to account for "elite" versions (of goblins, grimlocks or whatever) so I don't have to reuse NPC stat blocks like Veteran all the time.

After that, really? After a bunch of Gnolls went kamikaze on a spell rather than act like thinking humanoids in any way.

... discussing ways to tweak 5th edition to make it more robust for "advanced" play (or at least my kind of play), I'm afraid.

Have you tried playing the monsters as they actually might behave? I think that is one of the easiest ways to achieve what is lacking for you. I don't see these particular problems with "advanced" play (I do see others based on my preferences), but that is because in my game those Gnolls would have been a very serious threat (RAW and RAI not that I care about that stuff), unless I didn't want them to be or the PCs actually used some great planning/strategy/skill.

 

[Satyrn]

The regular encumbrance rules are garbage BTW. The implication is a person of average strength could carry 150 lbs forever, that's absurd. I know it's a fantasy game, but it should have some connection to the physical world so players can get connected also.

We play with all of it, but the adventure days are longed and you might go weeks in wilderness without seeing a merchant to buy stuff from.

Aye, but I prefer playing like an episode of Xena. She wanders through space and time with nothing but her armor and weapons, and can still set up camp, and pan fry the fish she catches. I'm glad the encumbrance rules are garbage.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

The archer carry examples while relatively correct, are misleading. That's what hey would carry between battles. They would march into battle carrying those arrows, place them on the ground when getting ready for mass volleys while protected from Melee attacks, then use them. That's very different then trying to adventure.

Or if Lars Andersen is correct (https://youtu.be/BEG-ly9tQGk?t=196), and he might be, they would march into battle carrying twelve arrows in their draw hand and a bow in the other, and then shoot all twelve arrows one by one from the same hand before reloading. Sleight of Hand is now a vital skill proficiency for an archer!

 

[happyhermit]

Sorry for quoting myself, but that example and it's effects on your view of the game really intrigue me.

...
Have you tried playing the monsters as they actually might behave? I think that is one of the easiest ways to achieve what is lacking for you.

Or rather, if the "role-playing" aspect is a stumbling block, couldn't you just focus on playing them strategically based on their defined abilities within the game.

Without considering any particular motivations of Gnolls, just looking at them as game pieces that can do all of the things the game says they can do should be enough to make them more than capable of being a threat.

 

[smbakeresq]

Aye, but I prefer playing like an episode of Xena. She wanders through space and time with nothing but her armor and weapons, and can still set up camp, and pan fry the fish she catches. I'm glad the encumbrance rules are garbage.

Well then you should have no complaints about things being unbalanced in game when you do t use tools in the game to balance out.


I think though your response is typical of the video game generation, where it is all handled backstage and %50 of what's left is hand waived. It's just a different way to play.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app

 

[Satyrn]

Well then you should have no complaints about things being unbalanced in game when you do t use tools in the game to balance out.


I think though your response is typical of the video game generation, where it is all handled backstage and %50 of what's left is hand waived. It's just a different way to play.

It's not a videogame thing. It's a "I just want to play a hero doing hero stuff" thing.

And I have no complaints about balance, no.

(Nor do I think that the encumbrance variant rules are there to balance anything but some players' desire for encumbrance rules against those of us who don't want to be bothered.)

 

[smbakeresq]

As far as the mob scenario, intelligent creatures will see a spell caster concentrating on a spell or see spell casters as the greatest threat and focus them right away, forcing so many concentration checks that spells won't last long.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app

 

[smbakeresq]

It's not a videogame thing. It's a "I just want to play a hero doing hero stuff" thing.

And I have no complaints about balance, no.

(Nor do I think that the encumbrance variant rules are there to balance anything but some players' desire for encumbrance rules against those of us who don't want to be bothered.)

Then why bother with rules at all? That's seems to be the way some want to play. "I am a hero so I make 100 attacks in a round and have infinite HP"

People don't want to be bothered with any rule that limits them in any way. That seems to be what the issue is with many players. They are used to the pause key, and then setting difficultly levels for that encounter, then moving on. It's just different.

Playing with different people, especially in shops, has shown me that players today are mostly incapable of role playing anything, asking for a speech response just freezes the game up. It's just the way it is now.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app