D&D 5E (2014) Quick Question: Spell Sniper and Magic Stone

[pukunui]

Hi all,

The Spell Sniper feat lets you gain another cantrip that requires an attack roll. Would the magic stone cantrip from the EEPC count? Or does it have to be something like fire bolt?

Thanks,
Jonathan

 

[Lanliss]

Hi all,

The Spell Sniper feat lets you gain another cantrip that requires an attack roll. Would the magic stone cantrip from the EEPC count? Or does it have to be something like fire bolt?

Thanks,
Jonathan

I would say it works, as long as the spell Magic Stone requires an attack roll. At least by RAW.

EDIT: I looked at the document, and Yes, I would say it definitely works. My reasoning is that Spell Sniper, as it requires the ability to cast spells, is simply a matter of placing certain magics into the stones, as opposed to the martial Sharpshooter, which is obviously a use of excessive skill.

 

[pukunui]

You touch three pebbles and imbue them with magic. You can then make a ranged spell attack with one of them at a time. I'm inclined to think it doesn't count, since the attack isn't really part of the casting of the spell. It comes later (or not at all even).

 

[mellored]

You touch three pebbles and imbue them with magic. You can then make a ranged spell attack with one of them at a time. I'm inclined to think it doesn't count, since the attack isn't really part of the casting of the spell. It comes later (or not at all even).

"When you cast a spell that requires you to make an attack roll..."

Which magic pebbles does, so it applies.

I could see an arguments that it only increases the "range" part of the spell, and thus allow you to cast it on stones that are further away, but I could just as easily see it applies to the ranged attack roll.

And moreover, I see no game or balance reason why it shouldn't apply.

 

[jaelis]

Magic Stone is a troublemaker. Best to just ask your DM.


Story DM:
"Spell Sniper means you have really good aim. It applies to spells that you aim. Magic Stone is about imbuing a rock with magic, it's like an artificer style spell. Your ability to throw the rock has something to do with how effectively you've imbued it, but not with how good your spell aim is."

Casual DM:
"Magic Stone has an attack roll so sure."

Rules Lawyer DM:
"Spell Sniper works with spells that require you to make an attack roll. But someone else could make the attack with Magic Stone."

Balance DM:
"Sure it doesn't lead to any special advantage or abuse, go with it."

 

[tuxgeo]

Magic Stone is a troublemaker. Best to just ask your DM.
< snip > . . .
Rules Lawyer DM:
"Spell Sniper works with spells that require you to make an attack roll. But someone else could make the attack with Magic Stone."
< snip > . . .

The Rules Lawyer DM might instead rule that the Spell Sniper feat applies if you make the attack with the magic stone, but does not apply if someone else does.

 

[jaelis]

The Rules Lawyer DM might instead rule that the Spell Sniper feat applies if you make the attack with the magic stone, but does not apply if someone else does.

Ah but the feat doesn't say anything about who makes the attack, it specifies what the spell has to require. "When you cast a spell that requires you to make an attack roll." Magic Stone does not require you to make an attack roll, so you can't apply the feat in the first place. I think that's what a hard core rules lawyer would have to conclude.

Not that you won't find a DM to rule as you suggest. Maybe call that the Compromise DM? It has a nod to RAW but also to story, and it's fairly casual

 

[pukunui]

Thanks guys. I was actually asking if magic stone was a viable option for the bonus cantrip you get when you take Spell Sniper.

I'm playing an arcana cleric, and I feel like Spell Sniper would be useful since the other PCs are all melee guys, but there aren't a lot of viable cantrip options. Clerics don't have any attack roll cantrips, and my Int and Cha aren't good enough to warrant taking a cantrip from any class that uses those, so I'm left with druid cantrips. Thorn whip is one. Produce flame seems to be another. But I'm not sure if magic stone would be eligible or not, since the spell itself doesn't involve an attack roll. Shillelagh doesn't either. So I'm thinking the answer would be no, but I'm not 100% sure.

If yes, that would be great, since magic stone lets you add your ability modifier to the damage already. If I choose one of the others, I won't get to add my Wis mod to the damage with Potent Spellcasting since the feat's cantrip wouldn't count as a cleric cantrip.

 

[jaelis]

Thanks guys. I was actually asking if magic stone was a viable option for the bonus cantrip you get when you take Spell Sniper.

Oops I didn't read carefully sorry

Rules lawyer would surely say yes to that. The spell does require an attack roll to function. Not sure about the story DM...

 

[mellored]

Thanks guys. I was actually asking if magic stone was a viable option for the bonus cantrip you get when you take Spell Sniper.

"You learn one cantrip that requires an attack roll."
Magic Stones requires an attack roll.

So yes.