D&D 5E Do you care about setting "canon"?

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I went to the PF SRD site and looked for some stuff with a 2016 date on it.
Oooo a prestige class. That could *only* be found in a D&D product.
Or any product that uses the d20 rules like d20 Modern, Star Wars, Iron Heroes, and dozens of other games that use the d20 rules.

Marvel was founded on being not DC - hence "the Marvel way", the FF not having secret identities and having interfamily squabbles, etc.
That would be in the 60s, twenty years after Marvel started making comics.
-edit-
Actually... The thing is, the Fantastic Four were not created as super heroes. They were monsters who didn't wear costumes for several issues. They were part of Marvel's then standard line of monster comics. Marvel was publishing B-scifi stories in titles like "Tales to Astonish" or "Strange Tales" or "Amazing Adult Fantasy" or "Tales to Astonish". Stories with titles like "When OOG lives again!", "This is... KLAGG!", "I found RRO! The monster from the bottomless pit", and "I unleashed SHAGG upon the world!" Stories with characters like the man who shrunk himself and fell into the ant hill, the dying mad scientist in a metal suit, and the man who became a god.

It was in a conversation with editors from (bum bum bummmm) DC comics that a Marvel staff member was told to try superheroes. As DC comics had been experiencing a lot of success converting their old 40s superheroes to the modern day.
So Marvel copied that move. And they quickly took the horror B-science characters they had running around and made them superheroes. Iron Man's suit became a costume. Thor fought crime. The Fantastic Four got their costume. Hank Pym started calling himself Ant Man and got a costume. Etc.

They copied DC.
 
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I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Again, we're getting caught up between "Does this character fit" and "Does this character evoke".

What are the defining characteristics of a Dragonlance gnome? Well, probably the biggest is the whole Rube Goldbergesque invention thing. You play a character that has never attempted anything like this. Additionally there are naming conventions and speech conventions as well.

What are the defining characteristics of a Dragonlance arcane caster? Again, the biggest is membership with the Wizards of High Sorcery and taking the Test of High Sorcery. You have done neither. Additionally, there is the effect of the moons on casters, which also hasn't been taken into account.

What's the one thing that all DL characters in canon share? A belief in the gods and that the gods are important and returning the gods to their rightful place is a big deal. You have a character that repudiates that belief, and espouses a point of view shared by exactly no one in the entire setting.

These all evoke DL for you, but for me they weren't the interesting part of the gnome or the wild sorcerer or the setting itself as the actual sourcebooks that I read described it. The verbal tic and the inventions were characteristic of a mindset, not definitive of it (like having a scottish accent and wielding an axe are dwarf stereotypes). Wild sorcery occurs due to the effects of primordial chaos, not the moons. All people in the setting after the cataclysm are explicitly said to turn away from the gods because of what they did.

The problem is that I tried to make an authentic DL character and, in your estimation, failed, because the lore I was true to wasn't lore that you recognized as in the Dragonlance "genre" (despite the fact that the designers and authors who worked in that genre saw them as within that genre).

If the lore hadn't changed, that wouldn't be a problem.

Have you created a character that fits in the setting? Yup. No question there. You certainly have not contradicted any established lore. Have you created a fantastic character that is adding tons to the game? Again, absolutely yes and the game would be a lot different if you were playing a different character.

But, can you honestly say that this character, described to someone who isn't playing the campaign, would immediately evoke Dragonlance? That the first thing anyone hearing about this character would think of would be, "Yup, that's a DL character."?

That's the part I'm getting hung up on. Does he fit? Absolutely. Is he authentic to the setting? Not so much. At least, not by the definition of authenticity I'm using.

Genre definitions are personal. My character isn't inauthentic by some objective standard of authenticity, he just doesn't ring as authentic to you, because your genre definition is slightly askew of what the setting says about itself in other published products. I appreciate the nuance and unique flavor to certain aspects of DL lore that don't match your own appreciations. I like Texas BBQ, you like 'bama BBQ, and think the Texas stuff isn't real BBQ.

The issue is that we're getting two different flavors of Dragonlance when we're supposed to be having the same one. If our expectations were the same when we picked this thing up, we'd both be enjoying authentic flavors of DL (whichever flavor that happened to be). As it sits, because they've used the same label on several different flavors, we can be having the SAME THING and not agree on what it really tastes like.

This is a major issue with canon changes.
 
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I went to the PF SRD site and looked for some stuff with a 2016 date on it.

Let's have some fun, shall we. A little game.
I grabbed some RPG books off my shelf and snapped a pic of a page inside. Then I cropped out the page dress and made things greyscale.

Which ones would you say are D&D:

Pages 1.jpg

Pages 2.jpg

Pages 3.jpg

Pages 4.jpg


Now, I grabbed some images for "troll" from a generic Google search along with "troll fantasy". No text. No rules.
Which are D&D trolls:

Trolls 3.jpg

Trolls 1.jpg

Trolls 2.jpg
 

innerdude

Legend
[MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION] -- It was very fun exercise trying to figure out which book your snapshots were taken from. I think I have 7 or 8 of them correct; there's 3 or 4 I'm not terribly sure about. :)
 


See, this is where personal experience really plays a part.

My first experiences with 3e were set in Scarred Lands. I really bought into the setting and loved it. Thing is, SL shares virtually no lore with core D&D. Every flavor element is rewritten. To the point where there are three SL specific monster manuals, a complete SL dieties guide and various other books. Outside of a PHB and a DMG, you can play SL without any WotC books.

And I'd still say that I was playing D&D.

So, even though SL drow are non matriarchal, do not worship Lolth and share virtually none of the lore with standard drow, they are still easily recognizable as drow. A new version of them, sure, but, still very much recognizable as drow.

I've been rejecting standard D&D lore for a very, very long time.
Cool. Sounds like you had fun.
Would I say you were playing D&D? Well… it's not really for me to say.

The thing D&D has going for it is it's ubiquitous. It's not a generic system. It's not always the most hackable system. But people know it. So they make it their own.
You can hack any system. Just the other day I was listening to the Tabletop Babble podcast and they were talking about using systems to play superheroes, and numerous non-cape systems were suggested included 3e and 4e D&D. You can make the D&D rules into anything with a little effort.

But none of that means D&D is a generic rulelset. Adding a different world doesn't mean the existing one ceases to exist.
You can mod Grand Theft Auto to let you play as Iron Man or the Hulk. Or add pirates or Pokemon to Ark: Survival Evolved. But that doesn't negate the story, characters, and lore of the existing video games.
 


Doesn't his Scarred Lands campaign exist within your multiverse?

Gamma World certainly does, as does (theoretically) all possible permutations of FR. If it is all possible, then what story elements wouldn't be canon?

Or are you expressing a preference for a subset of campaign worlds within your multiverse?
What a bizarre question.

How is my making his campaign canon or noncanon for me remotely relevant?
If I say "no" does that somehow mean WotC isn't required to acknowledge the canonicity of their own worlds? "Jester David didn't acknowledge Hussar's campaign took place in his world, therefore D&D has no continuity either"?
 


Why is that a bizarre question? I honestly am curious given the following three beliefs which I have inferred from your posts-

1. You have a "strong" canon position; and
2. Your strong canon position includes the D&D multiverse, which includes the infinite multiplicity of planes; and
3. You do not believe that certain ways to run D&D (Scarred Lands, super heroes, Gamma World(?)) are D&D canon.

I'm not sure I can reconcile this myself, so I asked how you do. I would make my own distinctions based on a D&D gestalt (Scarred Lands, Lankhmar, and even Golarion can be D&D, while Gamma World and super heroes are not). But if you accept (2), above, then anything would be allowed, since it's all possible, and any "canon variation" can be explained by simply being an alternate (like Earth Prime etc.).

That's why I keep thinking that there has to be a distinction for you between rules and campaign settings that you haven't fully spelled out, but maybe I'm wrong.
Scarred Lands isn't official. So it would be noncanon for WotC. To anyone who runs that world, it would be in their personal canon.

It's the difference between an Apple iPad product, a licensed iPad product, and an unofficial "iPad compatible" product. The white charger you buy at a gas station might work with your iPad, but it's not *really* an iPad product.

You wouldn't call the knockoff tablet that looks just like an iPad an "iPad". It's a knockoff. That's like your grandma calling your Sega Genesis a "Nintendo". So why would you call Pathfinder "D&D"?
 

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