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D&D 5E Idea for a new feat - Martial Flexibility

Barolo

Explorer
From another thread, I expressed my desire to open the possibilities of more well-balanced martials attribute-wise, and another poster suggested the following:

I think diverse builds could need some help. +1 int and cha doesn't cut it for fighters. I would at least allow skill training for fighters that want more roleplay opportunities.
A mix of dex and str is also a good idea. It is however quite difficult to make that balanced for a variant human that starts with 16 dex and str. Maybe make str bonus +1/2 dex bonus rounded down to a maximum of +5. A human variant would begin with +4 if he took the feat... but I would not worry too much about that.

Afterwards I started thinking about the idea and came up with this:


Martial flexibility

Prerequisite: Strength 15 or higher, 6th level or higher (or maybe 4th level or higher...)
When you are wielding a melee weapon with which you are proficient that does not have the heavy property, you can calculate you melee attack and damage bonus as though your attacking attribute was the sum of your dexterity and strength -10 (maximum 20).


Then there would be a similar feat for ranged attacks, requiring dex 15+ and maybe excluding mechanical ranged weapons (crossbows) instead of heavy ones, but otherwise the same.


Some thoughts on my own design:


First, it is not elegant. I was trying to make it somehow value a little bit the odd scores. But then, instead of just adding the dex and str bonuses and capping at +5 I came up with such ugly equation. Moreover, I added a level gate, which as far as I remember is without precedent in 5e feat design. I thought about adding this to avoid "problems" with variant humans. The level 6 would be more of a attempt to sync with the earliest maxing of the primary atribute, which leads to the second point...


Second, it is potentially cheaper to max. Using standard array, usually it would take two ABIs to max out the main attack, but with this proposal it takes only one if someone starts off str & dex 15+. I am taking this into account, as on the other hand the PC cannot dump the other score at character creation (which seems to be very common, at least for fighters and rogues), and also when a PC increases an attribute, it is not only attack and damage they are increasing. For a dx character that also means AC, init, dex save and a few nice skills. For the str one it may mean less, but having a good str (athletics) goes a long way being an effective tank and helping battlefield control.


Third, I am not sure it is balanced/creates unexpected interactions with other parts of the game. I excluded heavy weapons from the melee version because heavy melee weapons seem to be by design the purview of str. If it were balanced, I would even imagine going as far as proposing something similar for spellcasters, let's say something to allow warlocks to mix up a little int on their spellcasting.

So, any thoughts, suggestions, critiques? Is it too dumb, too unbalanced, am I not seeing an obviously broken detail in it at all? Are there any different ideas completely unrelated to feats but that would address the same point? Am I too nearsighted to see that the game already provides with plenty of incentives for martials to be all-around balanced?

Everything is welcome, thank you guys in advance.
 

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Conceptually, I like it. You're right, that the formula involved is a little bit cumbersome, but I don't have any simple suggestion right now for how to improve it.

The bigger problem is that this is potentially allows an attack/damage bonus of +5 right at 1st level (15 Str + 15 Dex = 20), so it needs to be level-restricted. But if you limit it to higher levels (it's currently requiring 6th+ level) you run into the problem where the PC is weaker early-on and then stronger later (compared to other PCs). That's really not a great trade-off. Again, I don't have a great suggestion for fixing that.

One idea I had one time, was a feat that gave you Expertise with weapon attacks (double proficiency bonus) but gave you NO ability score bonus to attack rolls. Damage rolls use the regular score. This would allow characters who are mediocre (or even bad) at Str and Dex to rely more on training to land blows. It would enable certain concepts from 4E, like the Dex/Wis avenger who fights with a greatsword.
 

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One idea I had one time, was a feat that gave you Expertise with weapon attacks (double proficiency bonus) but gave you NO ability score bonus to attack rolls. Damage rolls use the regular score. This would allow characters who are mediocre (or even bad) at Str and Dex to rely more on training to land blows. It would enable certain concepts from 4E, like the Dex/Wis avenger who fights with a greatsword.

This idea is awesome, and much simpler, I really like it!
 

[MENTION=61932]Barolo[/MENTION] I dislike it. What optimizer wouldn't take your proposed feat?
 
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Conceptually, I like it. You're right, that the formula involved is a little bit cumbersome, but I don't have any simple suggestion right now for how to improve it.

The bigger problem is that this is potentially allows an attack/damage bonus of +5 right at 1st level (15 Str + 15 Dex = 20), so it needs to be level-restricted. But if you limit it to higher levels (it's currently requiring 6th+ level) you run into the problem where the PC is weaker early-on and then stronger later (compared to other PCs). That's really not a great trade-off. Again, I don't have a great suggestion for fixing that.

One idea I had one time, was a feat that gave you Expertise with weapon attacks (double proficiency bonus) but gave you NO ability score bonus to attack rolls. Damage rolls use the regular score. This would allow characters who are mediocre (or even bad) at Str and Dex to rely more on training to land blows. It would enable certain concepts from 4E, like the Dex/Wis avenger who fights with a greatsword.

So just basic max level look at your proposed feat. Normally you get +5 to attack. Your feat would give any character +12. That's even more OP than the first guys proposal.
 

Just houserule that everyone uses proficiency bonus with for attack rolls with weapons of which they are proficient and do away with the stat bonus to attack rolls.? No feat or anything else. Just a straight houserule for everyone?
 

So just basic max level look at your proposed feat. Normally you get +5 to attack. Your feat would give any character +12. That's even more OP than the first guys proposal.
Incorrect. Normally you get +11 to attack because you're a smart cookie who has maxxed out your attack ability at +5. So my feat proposal would do you 1 better at +12. But it would be weaker in the damage department because the implication is that this feat is for people who have NOT maxxed out their attack ability. Sorry if I did not explain that properly.
 
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Just houserule that everyone uses proficiency bonus with for attack rolls with weapons of which they are proficient and do away with the stat bonus to attack rolls.? No feat or anything else. Just a straight houserule for everyone?

This is actually not a bad idea.

It's closer to how 1e and 2e worked. Your ability scores didn't matter as much in those editions because they didn't affect your combat quantities nearly as much.

A rule like this would also make it really clear that attack rolls are not ability checks. Many new players are confused by that nuance. If the attack roll really actually did not involve an ability modifier, that might make it more obvious that they are not ability checks.

Ability modifier would still matter when attacking, because it is a factor in damage. (Except for attack cantrips. This is a weird asymmetry that I've never liked. I can't think of a good way to fix it without unbalancing cantrips and messing up certain class features.)
 

[MENTION=61932]Barolo[/MENTION] I dislike it. What optimizer wouldn't take your proposed feat?

Ok, I didn't notice this would be a dominating option. As it is not possible to go beyond what one can already get from the normal progression (+5 to att and dmg), I would suppose you are analyzing the one ABI discount to maximize the attack?

It seems to me not the dominating option for PCs that intend to go dx based, as it would hurt their AC, dx save, ranged attack, initiative and stealth, while still demanding of them to invest in str at character creation, right? They could even get the ranged version of the feat, but now they just spent two feats without getting the other benefits, and anybody starting with point buy or standard array can manage to spend two ABIs to max out the attack anyway.

So looking at str based chars, what I see is that medium and heavy armor sword and board users are getting one feat discount to maximize their melee attack. As a drawback, they don't improve their athletics tests, throwing attacks, str saves*, and still have to invest a significant score to dex at character creation. So, I was thinking this was a fair trade. Maybe I misevaluated it?

*I know, they are rare, nobody seems to care about them, but I really dislike being victim of a monster grapple, specially as the party brute

I was thinking of this feat to be somewhat niche, to give old school melee rangers some incentive for not thrashing str, or to give an easier life for those elven heroes that just wanted to wield longswords, and the human melee heroes in shinning armor that don't want to look like a pile of muscle.
 

Just houserule that everyone uses proficiency bonus with for attack rolls with weapons of which they are proficient and do away with the stat bonus to attack rolls.? No feat or anything else. Just a straight houserule for everyone?

Just proficiency bonus, starting from +2 and capping at +6? This would change a lot the power curve of the game wouldn't it? And also affects the balance between save spells and attacks in general.
 

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