D&D 5E Mike Mearls interview - states that they may be getting off of the 2 AP/year train.

[CapnZapp]

The business of tabletop rpgs is simple. There is no business.

Any rpg line that benefits customers (rather than corporate pipe dreams) will be published by a small outfit with no dreams of real profit (on the corporate scale).

As soon as "business" enters the equation, the market becomes a liability rather than an asset. You simply can't sell your customers several hundred man-hours worth of entertainment for $40 and expect to do business; yet, that is exactly what tabletop rpgs are all about.

Cue one failed attempt to change fundamentals after the other:
- entice gamers with power creep (i.e. "pay to play")
- make the game "open" so other companies are fooled into publishing your loss-leaders for you
- turn it into a boardgame with cards and dice and other physical deitrus that can be sold
- integrate computer tools, sucking the customer base into a subscription service

None of this crap benefits us gamers.

About the only strategy with any modicum of success has been The Reboot - where every so often a completely new edition comes out. But that is not enough, and carries its own set of risks.

 

[Oofta]

The business of tabletop rpgs is simple. There is no business.

Any rpg line that benefits customers (rather than corporate pipe dreams) will be published by a small outfit with no dreams of real profit (on the corporate scale).

As soon as "business" enters the equation, the market becomes a liability rather than an asset. You simply can't sell your customers several hundred man-hours worth of entertainment for $40 and expect to do business; yet, that is exactly what tabletop rpgs are all about.

Cue one failed attempt to change fundamentals after the other:
- entice gamers with power creep (i.e. "pay to play")
- make the game "open" so other companies are fooled into publishing your loss-leaders for you
- turn it into a boardgame with cards and dice and other physical deitrus that can be sold
- integrate computer tools, sucking the customer base into a subscription service

None of this crap benefits us gamers.

About the only strategy with any modicum of success has been The Reboot - where every so often a completely new edition comes out. But that is not enough, and carries its own set of risks.

So basically, games are cool until they sell out to the man?

I wish I thought this was sarcasm ... I guess I'll just go back to playing a game I enjoy and being a corporate patsy by spending money buying books they force on me. At a reasonable profit. While moaning about how the whole system is doomed, DOOMED I TELL YOU!

 

[CapnZapp]

So basically, games are cool until they sell out to the man?

I wish I thought this was sarcasm ... I guess I'll just go back to playing a game I enjoy and being a corporate patsy by spending money buying books they force on me. At a reasonable profit. While moaning about how the whole system is doomed, DOOMED I TELL YOU!

You're misinterpreting me. I'm not talking about gamers and I have nothing against you if you choose "corporate" games like dnd.

I'm talking about how every attempt to "corporatify" ttrpgs work *against* us customers.

What works best is when the game publisher has *no* other financial interests than the game itself. No books or cards or figures etc Certainly no video games or movie franchises!

Why? Because there is magnitudes more money in *every* other such market, inevitably shifting priorities *away* from the ttrpg. Or worse, attempts to monetize the ttrpg in ways detailed in my previous post.

So this has nothing to do with The Man. Have fun playing all kinds of ttrpgs!

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[DEFCON 1]

I'm talking about how every attempt to "corporatify" ttrpgs work *against* us customers.

Heh... you talk as though us customers are worth working for. You give us all way too much credit.

 

[Oofta]

You're misinterpreting me. I'm not talking about gamers and I have nothing against you if you choose "corporate" games like dnd.

I'm talking about how every attempt to "corporatify" ttrpgs work *against* us customers.

What works best is when the game publisher has *no* other financial interests than the game itself. No books or cards or figures etc Certainly no video games or movie franchises!

Why? Because there is magnitudes more money in *every* other such market, inevitably shifting priorities *away* from the ttrpg. Or worse, attempts to monetize the ttrpg in ways detailed in my previous post.

So this has nothing to do with The Man. Have fun playing all kinds of ttrpgs!

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

I will just say that I disagree. There are many flaws with our system of capitalism, but being motivated by making a reasonable profit is not necessarily one of them.

I don't buy the whole "starving artist RPG writer" schtick. People can give away bad games. Corporations can sell good, even great, products that could not otherwise be produced.

Obviously HASBRO is trying to maximize profit from their intellectual properties, hence the D&D movie. I don't see how that affect my TTRPG one way or another.

Everything we hear from the D&D team is positive, and that their employers are happy with what they are doing. We aren't seeing the setting bloat or the "book a month" churn we saw previously. That makes me hopeful that this version of D&D will last for the foreseeable future.

 

[CapnZapp]

I will just say that I disagree. There are many flaws with our system of capitalism, but being motivated by making a reasonable profit is not necessarily one of them.

I don't buy the whole "starving artist RPG writer" schtick. People can give away bad games. Corporations can sell good, even great, products that could not otherwise be produced.

Obviously HASBRO is trying to maximize profit from their intellectual properties, hence the D&D movie. I don't see how that affect my TTRPG one way or another.

Everything we hear from the D&D team is positive, and that their employers are happy with what they are doing. We aren't seeing the setting bloat or the "book a month" churn we saw previously. That makes me hopeful that this version of D&D will last for the foreseeable future.

You don't agree to what? Again you seem to think I'm critiquing someone's actions.

Please don't respond just to disagree with things I'm not talking about. Thx

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[FitzTheRuke]

The best thing that ever happened to D&D was taking the quarterly profit demand OFF the RPG and placing it on the brand. This was genius. Now, instead of having to pump out an ill-advised splatbook that crushes the edition with bloat, the parent company can be happy with licensing revenue: Toys, video games, and movies (all of which bring in money faster and easier than an RPG).

And the RPG can thrive, which in turn, increases the value of the brand.

Sent from my LG-D852 using EN World mobile app

 

[Oofta]

You don't agree to what? Again you seem to think I'm critiquing someone's actions.

Please don't respond just to disagree with things I'm not talking about. Thx

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

You've stated

I'm talking about how every attempt to "corporatify" ttrpgs work *against* us customers.

What works best is when the game publisher has *no* other financial interests than the game itself.

I disagree. Or maybe I just don't get exactly what it is that you are trying to say.

Back when TSR was running the show, they practically killed the game with setting bloat (there were many other issues as well). They were a dedicated TTRPG company and effectively went bankrupt. So that model didn't guarantee success.

We then had the book a month club for a few years at WOTC, and we saw how well that worked. PAIZO has made it work for a while, but only time will tell how long they will be able to keep it up. I wish them luck.

WOTC's current model seems to be working. Every report from the D&D staff indicates that their corporate overlords are happy. I don't see how their current approach is working against the customer, it certainly isn't working "against" me.

 

[CapnZapp]

You've stated



I disagree. Or maybe I just don't get exactly what it is that you are trying to say.

Back when TSR was running the show, they practically killed the game with setting bloat (there were many other issues as well). They were a dedicated TTRPG company and effectively went bankrupt. So that model didn't guarantee success.

We then had the book a month club for a few years at WOTC, and we saw how well that worked. PAIZO has made it work for a while, but only time will tell how long they will be able to keep it up. I wish them luck.

WOTC's current model seems to be working. Every report from the D&D staff indicates that their corporate overlords are happy. I don't see how their current approach is working against the customer, it certainly isn't working "against" me.

This is a separate discussion to which I have nothing to add.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[happyhermit]

There's a whole lot of wrong in this post, like undeniably provably wrong.

The business of tabletop rpgs is simple. There is no business.

Except there very obviously is.

Any rpg line that benefits customers (rather than corporate pipe dreams) will be published by a small outfit with no dreams of real profit (on the corporate scale).

This is just pure fantasy or deliberate untruth. 5e has benefited customers (I for one have benefited greatly, having fun with RPGs in a way I haven't for decades despite trying many games from small publishers) and was published by a large corporation, your statement is just completely incorrect.

As soon as "business" enters the equation, the market becomes a liability rather than an asset. You simply can't sell your customers several hundred man-hours worth of entertainment for $40 and expect to do business; yet, that is exactly what tabletop rpgs are all about.

TTRPGS are about selling customers several hundred man-hours or entertainment for $40? Nope. TTRPGs are about people playing role playing games together.

Cue one failed attempt to change fundamentals after the other:
- entice gamers with power creep (i.e. "pay to play")
- make the game "open" so other companies are fooled into publishing your loss-leaders for you
- turn it into a boardgame with cards and dice and other physical deitrus that can be sold
- integrate computer tools, sucking the customer base into a subscription service

None of this crap benefits us gamers.

Wait, much of what you call detritus I might call really cool stuff that makes the game better ie; spell cards. Does that mean you I am not a "gamer" or that I am just so stupid that I think it benefits me?