D&D 5E Mike Mearls on Settings

[Caliburn101]

Greyhawk is a child of the first two editions, and these punished you more for making mistakes, required more advanced planning as things were not balanced and CR didn't exist yet, not to mention it was grittier and less light vs. dark and more grey versus grey with only the very worst things that want to end existence (Tharizdun) or reshape reality into a nightmare (Vecna) forcing the various factions in the world to unite against them.

The most powerful group of wizards in the world are called the Circle of Eight, and are lead by Mordenkainen, the wizard of uber fame and he is NOT like Elminster. Elminster is the philosophical hippy to Mordenkainen's hard -bitten goth.

Greyhawk's post apocalypse (Baklunish vs. Suel) is on a grander, more hateful scale than Forgotten Realms fall of Netheril, and it deals with prejudice on a more adult (aka. Game of Thrones) way. The 'good guys' can ride over the hill to save you one minute, and betray you the next. To put it in FR terms - if you were to list the Factions of Greyhawk, they would be much more morally ambiguous. Also, the issue of feudalism and nobility is much more prevalent too - you don't even qualify for the same treatment as minor nobility in most places unless you have hit at least 9th level as a wizard or cleric for instance.

Greyhawk gave us Mordenkainen, Tenser, Vecna, Kas (and his sword), Tasha (of hideous laughter fame) - not to mention she became Iggwilv and wrote the Demonomicaon quoted in the MM...; the Tomb of Horrors, The Book of Vile Darkness, The Book of Exalted Deeds, The Axe of the Dwarvish Lords, Blackrazor, Whelm etc. - White Plume Mountain ofc, the Drow (before they were Drizzt'ified) and a lot more besides.

It has the odd crackpot name (trip to the Gnarley Forest anyone?), but it was always harder to survive in so the odd strange name didn't register too hard.

On the survivability front, any release for the Greyhawk Campaign should have much more limited healing (the grittiest of healing rules), rather infrequent instances of high level magic (only a few have it, and they are major players in the world - Mordenkainen, Canon Hazen, Iuz etc.) and emphasis on what separates people and keeps them wary of each other socially. Reputation rules and factional stuff should be very important here.

Alternatively (and this would be PURE GOLD), they could set it around 800 years before the original in the time when the survivors of the cataclysm were taking hold of the Flanaess (the area of the 'world map everyone knows) and Vecna leads his evil empire from the Keoland Valley whilst the barbarians and civilisations of the time try to oppose his inexorable rise to power.

An Age of Vecna campaign would require the most work, but would be fantastic!

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Nothing about Greyhawk with the "it has grittier rules" is going to make Greyhawk more distinct in the non-hardcore fan's mind. FR was also just as gritty when those rules existed in D&D, as it got it's start towards the latter periods of 1e. And I don't remember a thing that stated that Forgotten Realms would be "D&D but easier". And that's not counting the fact that 3e tried and failed to have GH as the assumed default. Grittier rules do nothing for making a setting distinct from another, sure Dark Sun has grittier rules that go beyond "GH gritty" with things like thirst/dehydration and weapon breakage but it's got a lot more than just "there's no Harpers and other good guy groups" for what makes it distinct from other fantasy worlds.

 

[oknazevad]

Going by Mearls idea that a setting = a type of fantasy.

Forgotten Realms = Default/Kitchen-Sink

Greyhawk = Sword-n-Sorcery/shades of gray

Eberron = pulp adventure/steampunk

Dragonlance = High fantasy

Ravenloft = Gothic/Horror

Dark Sun = Primeval Pulp/Sword and Sandals

Planescape = Strange fantasy


To an extent, Birthright and Mystara could be laid out similar, but I don't see them as popular enough (as much as that pains me) to put in some new book or AP.

Birthright may not be as well known, but I can imagine that emphasizing its major distinction, that of kings vs kings, of ruling domains, and of courtly intrigue would find a very willing audience these days thanks to the influence of Game of Thrones, even if a low-level adventuring party on a dungeon crawl might as well be in Faerûn.

 

[Davelozzi]

Greyhawk gave us Mordenkainen, Tenser, Vecna, Kas (and his sword), Tasha (of hideous laughter fame) - not to mention she became Iggwilv...

Wait...Iggwilv was Tasha? I totally missed that.


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[Mercule]

Eberron = pulp adventure/steampunk

Please, no. Yes, it's pulpy.

There is no "punk" in Eberron, though. Noir, yes. Punk, no. Punk would not go well with the setting, at all.

You could potentially add some "steam" to it, but it isn't really a core aspect of the setting. Pretty sure that "steam" without the "punk" is really just a Western. Which could work, but the setting doesn't exactly scream for it.

 

[Staffan]

I also believe that Spelljammer should have its own setting rather than be a connection to various settings. I'd have Spelljammer be about spacefaring swashbuckling adventures.

Complete agreement on this. Something like the Astromundi Cluster ought to have been the first thing produced for Spelljammer, rather than the last. The meta-setting aspect has its charm, but I would have put this in an appendix or additional sourcebook or something, rather than front-and-center the way it was originally.

 

[Mercule]

There are a number of folks who believe that the Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are two similar, though die-hard fans of each setting may disagree.

I think I would add in Mystara to that mix as well. What Mystara has going for it is the Hollow World and the Immortals. While there are skyships, they remind me a lot about Spelljammer. A large part of Mystara reminds me of Greyhawk and the Realms.

Mystara, Greyhawk, Krynn, and the Realms (order of introduction to D&D) are all reasonably similar in that they're all pretty generic pseudo-medieval fantasy settings. A lot of the differences are hard to nail down, but there are definite differences in feel.

It's a bit like when someone says that Sword of Shannara is a Lord of the Rings rip-off. There are a ton of arguments, either way. Someone who is able to present just one side can easily "prove" their point. Either way, there are a lot of thematic differences. There is also a difference in the way the two feel. Some of that is purely stylistic, as Tolkien and Brooks have very different writing styles. One can like one while disliking -- or even hating -- the other. One can also enjoy both. (Note that I'm specifically looking at the earlier Shannara books for tone and style, since they change somewhat.)

You could also say that the different settings are like the different iterations of Batman: Adam West, Tim Burton, Kevin Conroy, Christian Bale, Ben Affleck. It's the same character, and generally recognizable as such. But they're very different in the way they feel.

The settings could almost be attached to certain fantasy authors: Mystara is Burrows' style. Greyhawk is Lieber. Krynn is Brooks. The Realms are Piers Anthony (maybe Eddings).

To be more honest, Mystara is Cook/Mentzer/design-by-committee. Greyhawk is Gygax. Krynn is Weiss/Hickman. The Realms are Greenwood/Salvator/design-by-different-committee.

I'm not sure I could fully put it into words. While I much, much prefer to home brew and play in home brew, if I was forced to use one of the "vanilla fantasy" published settings, I would be quite comfortable running or playing Greyhawk; be less happy, but accepting of running or playing Mystara; roll my eyes but deal with playing Krynn; drink heavily before playing the Realms; and find something else to do rather than playing with a Realms purist. There's a difference that goes beyond the basics -- but, yeah, to the cursory player, there really probably isn't. Heck, if all you've ever seen of the Realms is the SCAG, there probably isn't any meaningful difference at all.

I still don't like the Factions being so prevalent. Greyhawk doesn't really have anything comparable, but we can reach a little. If Greyhawk was on top, it would still annoy me to see every adventure have hooks for the Scarlet Brotherhood, the agents of the Circle of Eight, Knights of the Hart, Church of St. Cuthbert, and Druids of the Old Faith. Blech. Just assume an unaffiliated party of adventurers/mercs. Stop with all the PC puppet masters.

 

[MackMcMacky]

Greyhawk is easily compared with Forgotten Realms as FR borrowed quite a bit from Greyhawk. What makes Greyhawk look more like Forgotten Realms are later Greyhawk supplements. If you move it back to pre-war Greyhawk some of the comparisons fail.

What I would like to see done with Greyhawk is flesh out small settings and avoid commentary on broad geopolitics. I think an adventure set in Greyhawk's Blackmoor with attention to its localized setting would be very interesting. Greyhawk is fractured into tiny states for a reason. It can provide variety and a distinct flavor. You don't need more D&D races to introduce cultural diversity. You don't need the same three to five deities and fiends behind every conflict and you don't need the Scarlet Brotherhood to be omnipresent. I have run plenty of campaigns with Iuz. I am presently using him. I don't want the next campaign to focus on Iuz.

As previously mentioned, Greyhawk could certainly appeal to a Game of Thrones fan, especially if you consider the Great Kingdom as originally described by Gygax.

Forgotten Realms plays to a world with powerful heroes who have created intricate networks that can directly and swiftly affect people from afar. Greyhawk plays to a world where travel is demanding and news takes time to spread for most people. There are regional factions in Greyhawk but there really shouldn't be much by way of continental or world factions.

 

[The Scythian]

Please, no. Yes, it's pulpy.

There is no "punk" in Eberron, though. Noir, yes. Punk, no. Punk would not go well with the setting, at all.

You could potentially add some "steam" to it, but it isn't really a core aspect of the setting. Pretty sure that "steam" without the "punk" is really just a Western. Which could work, but the setting doesn't exactly scream for it.

When people refer to Eberron as being steampunk, they don't mean that it has anything to do with either punk or steam, specifically. While the trains, airships, and constructs of Eberron don't actually use steam, they're clearly intended (along with things like the magic-not-gaslight lamps on city streets) to evoke the steampunk aesthetic that was catching on around the time it was published.

 

[Mercule]

When people refer to Eberron as being steampunk, they don't mean that it has anything to do with either punk or steam, specifically. While the trains, airships, and constructs of Eberron don't actually use steam, they're clearly intended (along with things like the magic-not-gaslight lamps on city streets) to evoke the steampunk aesthetic that was catching on around the time it was published.

I understand what "steampunk" means. Eberron actually is not intended to invoke the steampunk aesthetic. Pulp and noir, yes. Any sort of punk (which actually has its own connotations as part of the compound word), it does not have. In some ways, noir is similar to punk, but they are definitely not the same thing.