D&D 5E Anyone else think the Bard concept is just silly?

I think bards are too 'Jack of All Spells' in this Edition.

I never saw them as being a magical-power-level competitor with Wizards or Sorcerers, but now they are. They can even steal the Shtick of other arcane spellcasters, which is not silly, but OTT.

I would rather have seen them as a Warlord/Half Spellcaster/Skirmisher mix.
 

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I think bards are too 'Jack of All Spells' in this Edition.

I never saw them as being a magical-power-level competitor with Wizards or Sorcerers, but now they are. They can even steal the Shtick of other arcane spellcasters, which is not silly, but OTT.

I would rather have seen them as a Warlord/Half Spellcaster/Skirmisher mix.
To me, the Bard ought to be powerfully magical, but it doesn't have to be with spells. IMO, the Bard's words should have inherent power. The Bard should be able to stop someone dead in their tracks by simply telling them to stop, or speaking their Name.
The high level Bard should be able to resurrect people, cure blindness, make the lame walk, by speaking. Not because they were born with a mutant superpower of a magical voice, but because in the mythical worlds of DnD, knowledge itself, language itself, music itself, and art itself, should all be powerfully magical, and the Bard should be their master.

When the Bard screams the battle cry of his people, his people are roused to unnatural heights of battle-fever. When he reminds the proud lord of the tale of the similarly proud lord, that lord should be affected as if by an enchantment, and grow quiet, and go into contemplation, and come out changed.

I get that not all of that translates to DnD easily, but IMO, that is the mythic root of the Bard, and 5e doesn't do a great job of representing it. 4e did, for me, though. Even at low levels, Bard powers and rituals really hit the right notes for me. Pun intended.
 

Music isn't PART of his identity. it IS his identity. he is CALLED A BARD. :)
It is Implied even through the naming of the class that this is his focus. He happens to have a lot of secondary skills however
You mean just like how music is part of the Bard of Avon's identity? ;)
 

[MENTION=6867337]Brandegoris[/MENTION] I highly recommend you read Guy Gavriel Kay's Song For Arbonne. It is an excellent book, but it also gives a good view of a culture in which one would be hard pressed to argue that a troubadour is "silly".

Unless you view art, in general, as inherently silly, in which case...I don't even know because I can't fathom any human being thinking that, and not immediately disliking them! LOL

Oooo...looked that up. That looks really good, and I like his "theme" idea. Also...worked for Tolkein! I'm sold! Will have to pick that up.
 

And I will just say, some of us like the "silly" singing, skirt chasing troubadour bard ;) If only I were as talented as Scanlon Shorthalt! Though I am playing a goliath valor bard right now, and he is nowhere like that. I play him more "barbarian" kind of, with his big maul and grappler.
 

Little late to weigh in, but eyyyy.

Bard was my favorite 2e class.
Half-Elf was my favorite 2e race because of the multi-classing options.
The Bard's Handbook was one of my favorite 2e splats becasue it added more m/c and actual Bard lifestyle/RP stuff.

Now, 5e's Half-Elf Bard is one of the 'best' race/class combinations?

I'm goooood.
 

And I will just say, some of us like the "silly" singing, skirt chasing troubadour bard ;) If only I were as talented as Scanlon Shorthalt! Though I am playing a goliath valor bard right now, and he is nowhere like that. I play him more "barbarian" kind of, with his big maul and grappler.

Nice! I like those Bards, too.
I've played old school troubadours, skalds, one Bard was an Indiana jones style linguist and Seeker of lost things, and I've played the "classic" DnD jack of all trades Bard. None of them were silly, all of them were awesome.

And enjoy Song for Arbonne. It's one of my favorite books.

If you enjoy it, check out Tigana, by the same guy. (Lol same guy! Puns!)
 


Music is not the entirety of the bard's identity anymore than it was for Shakespeare (AKA "The Bard"). And, in fact, the dictionary definition of "bard" is a poet. Music isn't the core of the Bard class--Performance is. And that can be open to interpretation. And, even then, it doesn't even necessarily happen in combat.

Let's look at the 5E Bard's actual write-up and see how much music itself is ingrained in the class:
Spellcasting: "You have learned to untangle and reshape the fabric of reality in harmony with your wishes and music." So, yes, here music is mentioned. But music can be verbal, and, in fact, the verbal component of bard spells in 3E was recitation or singing. We also learn that a musical instrument can be used as a focus for spells. In 5E, foci are used as replacements for material components. Material components can be used with the same hand that is performing the somatic components, and only one hand need be free. That means a focus need only be used with one hand when casting. I don't know many musical instruments that can be played with one hand. In this case, the instrument serves as a rod, staff, orb, sprig of holly, or whatever a focus might be for any other class. It need not be played, but it can be. I don't view it as a tool so much as a symbol to help visualize and center the mind. In addition, a spell component pouch can replace the instrument as a focus.

Bardic Inspiration: "You inspire others through stirring words or music." Recitation or even just a pep talk can serve the purpose here. Music is a choice, but not a requirement.

Song of Rest: "... You can use soothing music or oration to help revitalize...." Again, music is a choice, but not required.

Countercharm: "... You gain the ability to use musical notes or words of power to disrupt...." Same as above.

Magical Secrets: Spells from other classes become Bard spells and, thus, are cast in the same way as above.

Cutting Words: "... You learn how to use your wit...." No mention of music.

College of Valor pretty much just adds on to combat ability and modifies already-existing features.

So, as you can see, music is not intrinsic to the class at all.


Sorcerers are, by their very definition, born into magic through some sort of bloodline. Of course it is entwined in their very being; it is in their blood.


As I said above, it's not music, but Performance that is the core of the Bard. But don't mix that up with the Performance skill. (Though, I would go on to say that a Bard without proficiency in Performance does himself or herself an injustice. Even so, Proficiency in that skill is not needed as long as the Bard has an instrument with which he or she is proficient.)

Count how many times the word MUSIC was mentioned in your post and then tell me its not about music....:/
 

Yup that is exactly how many took it even calling him troll on page one of the thread...

Take it how you want. I Invited people who felt the same way I did about the bard to have a discussion about it. If you didn't feel the same way it was certainly not a thread made for you? If you choose to get involved that's cool, but understand that was your choice.
I mean, Am I wrong there?
I didn't call the thread : I challenge you to explain why the bard is NOT silly".
See what I mean?
I am not upset in any way, But there are certaionly people upset with me and I don't know why. I truly am sorry if people think I am Sh*tting on them. I wont ever tell anyone they suck because they like something else. I didn't go to a thread Praising a bard and say *:):):):) you, You are all, childish Turd burglars" :)
I made my Own thread inviting people to discuss if they shared the same point of view. I am happily surprised that others that didn't share my viewpoint decided to chime in because it actually has changed my perspective a bit and I have conceded that the bard might be made cooler than I had at first given it credit for.
 
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