Tony Vargas
Legend
Sounds supernatural, which psionics are, but I don't think magic encompasses all the supernatural..What else are they? They operate by supra-mundane contrafactual processes. This is the very definition of magic.
Sounds supernatural, which psionics are, but I don't think magic encompasses all the supernatural..What else are they? They operate by supra-mundane contrafactual processes. This is the very definition of magic.
Sorry for taking so long, I was busy.
No, that’s one possible definition of magic, and a very poor one, in my opinion. There are several things which can break the laws of physics – be supernatural – which includes but is not limited to: Magic; Psionics; Qi/Ki manipulation; Superheroes’ genetics; some suspicious “ultra-advanced technology” (although I do grant that’s a stretch); plus some other isolated cases such as The Force (Star Wars); that dragon language in Skyrim (I don’t remember the name, but I think it fits); some Limit Breaks from Final Fantasy which are still unexplained; and at some point I thought about making dragon’s power not magic – I just don’t know if that’s a good idea. There’s one more case, but it touches on a dangerous subject here, so let’s leave at that.
Answering your question: psionics is not magic. Psionics is… Psionics. A direct class of supernatural power. In fact, as I was discussing with a fellow user, Psionics me be much more related to Qi than to magic itself; perhaps possibly being the same. That’s an interesting proposition – which depends on the writer, but still interesting. I would work on it.
But no, not magic.
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Answering your question: psionics is not magic. Psionics is… Psionics. A direct class of supernatural power.[/QUOT] OTOH, psionics has been used as little more than magic rehabilitated for use in sci-fi since before either term was coined....
Chatting with the 4e Monk?In fact, as I was discussing with a fellow user, Psionics me be much more related to Qi than to magic itself; perhaps possibly being the same. .
4e actually has both ... Rogue unless you work to make it otherwise rather defaults to martial assassin. And look at the Paragon paths the word Assassin is definitely on the roster.
Psionics had a COOL style in 1e that was wholey and completely incongruent with D&D ... although 3e did take a shot at integrating its flavor.OTOH, psionics has been used as little more than magic rehabilitated for use in sci-fi since before either term was coined....
Psionics had a COOL style in 1e that was wholey and completely incongruent with D&D ... although 3e did take a shot at integrating its flavor.
Same here badly written but evocative... shista... disign a modern quasi scifi game and use that flavor but fix the damn rules.Part of me REALLY wanted to like 1e psionics, but they were just so borked. We changed the rules to 1 attack/defense per round, which KINDA helped, but even then the stuff was pretty far out of line with the rest of the game.
The problem was, either you were a fairly weak psionic, in which case you were just plain better off not being psionic at all, since all it gained you was being meat on the table for any psionic monster that came along, OR you were a STRONG psionic, in which case the monsters were the meat on the table (even a low level PC with high psionic points could gank powerful demons, etc before they could escape if you used the 1 attack/defense per segment rule).
The disciplines were a total crapshoot. They remind me more than anything of the 1e GW mutation chart, and in fact they may well have had mutual inspiration!
Of course it was the very wackiness of it all that made it intriguing. Anyway, I still say its a magic system in my world view, just a very strange one. I always kind of thought that maybe a more interesting game would be one with a world where 1e psionics were the ONLY magic! You'd probably have to create a way to start out as a psionic character, and I don't know how you'd balance it so everyone didn't just do that and keep doing it until they lucked out and got some stupid powerful PC, but doubtless there would be a way.
But I would call all of these types of magic. There's some sort of supernatural 'juice' or something that is tapped into by some process or through some characteristic of the practitioner. I'd call some things like maybe 'ultra-advanced technology' perhaps skirting the edge in that they MIGHT actually NOT be supernatural (at least such is being claimed, they are 'fantastical'). Psionics OTOH isn't a technology (at least usually, in what case it is such then we might call it fantastical), nor is The Force (which I would call psionics personally, how is it different at all, its mental power). I'd call Qi pretty much also psionics, though some of it is more like 'Charles Atlas Superpower' kind of stuff, which is again effectively magical.
I understand, you want to limit 'magic' to something like muttering certain incantations, drawing mystical diagrams, and flinging exploding gobs of bat poop. The problem, as I see it, with this is that since its all made-up fantastical stuff anyway there's no effective difference, and little justification for drawing arbitrary lines in the rules or mechanics. This is something 4e is great about IMHO. There's simply no such thing as 'magical' and 'mundane', and this comports very well with the pre-modern world-view in which the entire world is effectively a big magical device which works in unknown ways for unknown reasons. An anti-magic spell in 4e would literally have to stop fighter's swords from working, hehe.
OTOH, psionics has been used as little more than magic rehabilitated for use in sci-fi since before either term was coined....
Chatting with the 4e Monk?
My point is more that they don't belong in the same story. If you have someone who reads minds, foretells the future, aports objects, walks through walls, flies, disappears into thin air, &c and he's doing that while wearing a robe and mumbling a lot while waving a wand, against a backdrop of dragons, knights, & castles, well then, it's 'magic.' If you have someone else doing all the same things, but he's wearing a uniform and concentrating intently, and doing it all against a backdrop of space ships, bug-eyed monsters, and alien worlds, well then, it's 'psionics.'Rehabilitated as modified, limited, re-themed, and adapted, sure. They’re the sci-fi equivalent of magic, but going from that to “psionics = magic” is a long jump.
My point is more that they don't belong in the same story. If you have someone who reads minds, foretells the future, aports objects, walks through walls, flies, disappears into thin air, &c and he's doing that while wearing a robe and mumbling a lot while waving a wand, against a backdrop of dragons, knights, & castles, well then, it's 'magic.' If you have someone else doing all the same things, but he's wearing a uniform and concentrating intently, and doing it all against a backdrop of space ships, bug-eyed monsters, and alien worlds, well then, it's 'psionics.'
Of course, D&D shamelessly steals from sci-fi as well as fantasy sources, has done since quite early on.