D&D 5E Medium Armor Fix

[Kryx]

Medium armor doesn't seem to hold up to expectations. There have been some threads about this, but here is my second approach (original OP below)

I've also considered another approach, inspired by 4e: armor types based on the material
View attachment 86141

This changes a bit more than a simple fix, but may be what I'm after. Class changes as a result:

• Barbarian has Leather, Hide armor. Different
• Bard has Leather, Hide armor. Valor and Blades get Chain armor. Similar
• Cleric has Leather, Hide, and Chain armor. You could add scale proficiency for all the domains that have heavy armor. Similar
• Fighter has Leather, Hide, Chain, and Scale armor. Different
• Paladin has Leather, Hide, Chain, Scale, and Plate armor. Unchanged.
• Ranger has Leather, and Hide armor Different
• Rogue has Leather armor. Unchanged.
• Warlock has Leather armor. Unchanged.

The lesser Chain, Scale, and Plate armors are options for characters who can invest 2 in Dex.
Barbarian would likely need a rule next to Unarmored Defense allowing the usage of Constitution in place of Dexterity while using Leather or Hide.
Strength Fighters would lose 1 AC as they aren't wearing plate (most fighter images are in chain or scale so I think restricting plate is flavorful, +1 AC could be added elsewhere if needed for balance).
Ranger would lose access to chain, but it's thematically appropriate imo.

Comparison for the Barbarian because he is the most changed:
Barbarian RAW 5th level: Breastplate 14+2 = 16 AC
Barbarian Houserules 5th level: Hide 13+3 = 16 AC


[sblock=Original Post]
Medium armor doesn't seem to hold up to expectations. There have been some threads about this, but here is my general goals to fix:

1. Make medium armor a viable alternative to light armor (Ranger, Dex Fighters)
2. Do not overpower medium armor for medium armor classes (Barbarian, Valor Bard, Cleric, Druid)
3. Have Heavy Armor > Medium Armor > Light Armor
4. Make medium armor a viable alternative to heavy armor for classes that have access to heavy armor (Paladin, Fighter, some Clerics)

I'm considering the following changes:

• Give Medium Armor DR 1 and Heavy armor DR 2. The benefit is great, but shouldn't be problematic for the game based on the Heavy Armor Master feat which gives DR 3.
• Increase the AC of Breastplate and Half plate by 1.

Result:

1. Rangers who have at least 14 will surely prefer medium armor over light armor now. Fighters will have the same tradeoff as the heavy armor fighters.
2. Druid has some metal restrictions so that's not too concerning. For the other 3 classes this is a buff of 1 DR and +1 AC once they are wealth enough to afford the armors. It's great, but I don't think it's game breaking.
3. The hierarchy seems to be what I desire.
4. Paladins and Fighters who have at least 14 dex now have viable alterantives to Heavy Armor. If they don't want to carry the weight they can use half plate and have the same AC as plate, but lose 1 DR. If they don't want to have disadvantage on stealth then they can also loose 1 AC (Breastplate)

At mid game assuming max stats we're looking at
Light armor: 12+5 = 17 AC
Medium armor: 16+2 = 18 AC, DR 1
Heavy armor: 18 AC, DR 2



What are your thoughts? Is the Medium Armor AC too much? How about the DR?

Thank you for your feedback.[/sblock]

 

[Dausuul]

You're making sweeping changes which don't solve the problem. If your players are willing to take on 25 pounds of extra weight for +1 AC, why wouldn't they take on 25 pounds for +1 DR instead? Do they do a lot of swimming?

My suggestion: If you want an interesting tradeoff, focus it in a different area. The simplest answer would be to abolish the Strength cutoffs and say that heavy armor reduces your speed to 20 no matter what. Then you have an interesting choice: Do you want to be mobile, or do you want to be tough?

 

[Kryx]

You're making sweeping changes which don't solve the problem. If your players are willing to take on 25 pounds of extra weight for +1 AC, why wouldn't they take on 25 pounds for +1 DR instead? Do they do a lot of swimming?

I believe the changes do solve the problems that I'm looking to address. The goal isn't to make medium armor the prime choice for all characters, but viable for those who its intended for.

I don't expect a fully Strength based Fighter to suddenly want to use Medium Armor. Heavy Armor is, and should be, the best armor choice for that build. The choice is much more attratctive now if that build commonly wants to stealth however. The loss of AC from plate to breastplate is 1 instead of 2 (if they have +2 dex).

My suggestion: If you want an interesting tradeoff, focus it in a different area. The simplest answer would be to abolish the Strength cutoffs and say that heavy armor reduces your speed to 20 no matter what. Then you have an interesting choice: Do you want to be mobile, or do you want to be tough?

I'm not looking to make Heavy Armor a non-viable choice which I believe 20 speed would do.

 

[Dausuul]

I believe the changes do solve the problems that I'm looking to address. The goal isn't to make medium armor the prime choice for all characters, but viable for those who its intended for.

If it doesn't put you near an encumbrance threshold (and for a PC with Str 15, it usually won't), 25 extra pounds of encumbrance is nothing. So when offered the trade, "25 pounds of encumbrance for more defense," players always pick defense. If the defense is DR instead of AC, they'll still pick defense. "Something for nothing" is always a good deal.

You're messing with the wrong side of the equation. It's not the "something" that needs changing, it's the "nothing." If you're running a seafaring campaign, the swimming penalty might be enough, but otherwise I can't see it coming up often enough to matter.

I'm not looking to make Heavy Armor a non-viable choice which I believe 20 speed would do.

Then make it 25 speed. Or choose a different tradeoff. But if you don't put something on the other side of the scale, the problem remains.

 

[Kryx]

Perhaps I have not been clear enough with my goals: Medium armor being a viable alternative to heavy armor for heavy armor strength based characters is a secondary goal at best. The main goals are Medium Armor > Light armor and making medium armor viable for classes like Dex Ranger.

Let me restate again: I have no interest in nerfing heavy armor in any way. Thank you.

 

[Kobold Stew]

My sense from the other threads on this topic is that the problem isn't with Medium Armor, it is with Light Armor and 20 Dex.

If the AC benefit of all Light Armors capped at +4 (just as Medium amor cap at +2), I think the problem is solved.

 

[jodyjohnson]

My sense from the other threads on this topic is that the problem isn't with Medium Armor, it is with Light Armor and 20 Dex.

If the AC benefit of all Light Armors capped at +4 (just as Medium amor cap at +2), I think the problem is solved.

In a related version I prefer to cap stats at 18 for this and other reasons. Light<Medium<Heavy

Sent from my VS810PP using EN World mobile app

 

[guachi]

My sense from the other threads on this topic is that the problem isn't with Medium Armor, it is with Light Armor and 20 Dex.

If the AC benefit of all Light Armors capped at +4 (just as Medium amor cap at +2), I think the problem is solved.

I do think this solves the problem.

Though I think adding DR is an interesting idea. How would you implement such a rule for monsters and NPCs?

I like capping the Dex bonus because it only comes in at the time that light armor surpasses medium armor - at 20 Dex. It does the least amount of change possible to reach a satisfactory solution. It builds on a rule that already exists - dexterity bonus limitations based on armor type.

We now would have:
No armor +5
Light +4
Medium +2
Heavy +0

If this had already been the rule, I don't think anyone would have been the wiser.

 

[Shiroiken]

Light Armor only outshines Medium Armor if the character uses Dex to attack. If Dex is not being used as the primary attack ability, medium armor is clearly superior (unless heavy is available, which is a different discussion). Wanting Dex based attack characters to move to medium armor is unnecessary, and really only serves to improve non-Dex based non-heavy armor characters (barbarian, clerics, and ranger, plus valor bard).

The best improvement to medium armor I've seen (and use) is to change Medium Armor Master Feat to provide +1 AC in medium armor, rather than increase the maximum Dex modifier to +3.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ma also comes into it. Generally you want a 14 con a 16 prime attribute and if you use weapons a high dex or strength helps.

Basically only a Barbarian mets those criteria and maybe a light cleric. Otherwise you trip over something.