D&D 5E FAMOUS LAST WORDS: "It wouldn't be here if we weren't supposed to fight it."

[pickin_grinnin]

At the beginning of a campaign (and at various points throughout it), I make sure to tell players that running away is the best option sometimes, and that they shouldn't assume that they can defeat everything they encounter.

 

[ccs]

Yeah cause glowing magical horns SHOUT anti-magic field.

At the very least it should be shouting "Investigate me now!".

I can't imagine any of the people I currently play with seeing that & just strolling on past.

 

[Coroc]

I mostly (95%) of the time use planned encounters, often I tend to fiddle and finetune the mobs in strength and number, so that the PCs barely survive but also only die with very bad luck on the dice, despite me rolling in the open (I do not change HP midfight) .

But I got another kind of encounter being to hard: e.g. the party is down on resources worn out and low on hp and they encounter a mob, who is in anger, throws a fireball at them as its first action wearing them down even further but clearly states verbally that he is also up for a conversation. That is especially useful if e.g. there is no way to flee.

 

[Lylandra]

My husband did that once in an one shot adventure, albeit in a less dangerous version:

We were 3rd level and there was this classic "need adventurers for X, offering Y as reward" table. There hanging was a note from "Lord Bashorius of the Masterful Mercenaries" who was looking for further companions for his raid on the Troll fortress. And my PC was like "Trolls? you're kidding me! I'm not up to Trolls, less a FORTRESS full of them. But I'd take a look at this tavern and this Bashorius.". But the rest of the not-yet-formed party was like "THIS IS OUR HOOK AND WE TAKE IT".

The hubby was a bit awestruck and made a wizard approach the note, reading it, then shaking his head and muttering that this "Bashorius troupe" wasn't worth the trouble and that he got his rear kicked royally by a Gargoyle mob the last time he went on an adventure with them. The party still was keen on joining Bashorius. So we all went to the Tavern and saw these guys and gals in their shining, sparkling stuff which all screamed "this is a high level party! Only join if you are experienced!". Still they tried to impress Bashorius and his group, doing tricks, swordplay, displaying magic etc. and get rebuffed. While my PC and one other found the single farmer who was looking for people to help him with his skeleton problem in a nearby mansion.

...the hubby still makes fun of Bashorius every now and then when we come around a seeming adventure hook which is clearly way out of our league.

 

[ccs]

Do you ever put overpowered monsters in the party's path?

Yes.
Well, rather I put things in their path & they decide how they're going to deal with it. The choices they make determines if the thing is overpowered or not.

For example, is it ever possible for a party of level 4 dudes to encounter an adult red dragon?

Yes. In fact I opened a campaign with an adult dragon encounter several years ago. The party, all 1st lv, were heading upstream on a river barge. The VERY 1st thing that happened was an adult green dragon swooping down on them & attacking the barge. Roll initiative.
Several PCs (and NPCs) jumped overboard & swam for shore.
1 PC hid in the wheelhouse with a few NPCs.
Another PC hid behind the corner of said wheelhouse & shot at the dragon with his xbow.
The dragon ignored the xbow bolt, took a round to scuttle the boat, grabbed a horse, & as it was leaving casually turned the wheelhouse to splinters with a tail slap. Just because it could. The damage it caused to those hiding in/next to the wheel house was purely incidental.
Fortunately for the PCs none of them did anything really stupid like charging into melee or casting Magic Missle on it.

This encounter
1) established that there was an adult green dragon living in the area,
2) put the PCs ashore where the actual 1st lv aventure would be occurring during their overland trek.

And if so, how do you impress upon your PCs that fighting might not be the answer?

I generally don't bother/have to. Most of the people I play with are veteran gamers & fellow DMs. They know there's multiple ways to deal with an encounter, not just combat. (they also know the books as well as I do).
The rest, though new to this stuff, are fairly smart. I describe a creature & they use their own judgment as to wether stabbing it seems like the right choice.
And they all know that I've no qualms about killing characters. I roll the dice in the open & let whatever results occur stand.

 

[Inchoroi]

You guys ever hear of Gygaxian Naturalism? Hit the link for the full story, but here's what's got me curious: Do you ever put overpowered monsters in the party's path? For example, is it ever possible for a party of level 4 dudes to encounter an adult red dragon? And if so, how do you impress upon your PCs that fighting might not be the answer?

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

*looks at my notes with the ancient black dragon less than 50 miles from the starting city*

Yes. Yes, I do.

However, the party knows that it's there, because it took over a gem mine that belonged to the city. Many people in the city, including the entire Gem and Jeweler's Guild, wants it back, and has a standing reward for the dragon's head...but no one has been successful. Scouts have also reported that the dragon has started gathering some followers, mostly orcs and trolls from the surrounding countryside.

 

[Fauchard1520]

*looks at my notes with the ancient black dragon less than 50 miles from the starting city*

Yes. Yes, I do.

Now that's interesting to me. Here's a serious question: Would you consider this dragon a part of the game, or is he window dressing? I ask because I suspect there's a very real psychological difference between "you've heard rumor of a dragon in the area" and "here's a random encounter with a dragon."

 

[CTurbo]

I think it's important for the players to know that there is always something bigger and badder than them and that fighting is not always the answer. You obviously have to be smart with it though. If the PCs are not meant to fight it, there obviously has to be other options.

I had a 6 Int Barbarian and I even put it in his character flaw that he would never back down from a fight. Ever. No matter what. Because he is stupid and thinks that he is the strongest there is. Well our DM put us in a situation that I don't think he should have put us in. He put us up against 20-25 guards. I know his goal was for us to run, but he also should have known that my character was not going to run. Eventually, my Barb got beat down and we were captured. I felt like I stayed true to my character though by fighting.

As a DM, I once had my characters come across a curious Storm Giant and they almost instinctively started firing on it which would have led to all of their deaths, but they decided to be smart and talk to it. I like throwing neutral and good "monsters" at my players to see how they interact with them.

I had my 4 player level 1 party come across a single Rakshasa and if they would have handled it better, it only wanted some information, but after they tried and failed to intimidate it, and then spending a couple of rounds attacking it hilariously while it just stood there like "really?" I made them do several jobs for it as punishment. They all thought I was cheating them lol

 

[The Human Target]

Nope.

I tailor things to fit the players and characters.

I like D&D as heroic fantasy adventure, not survival horror Ocean's Eleven.

Running away, talking, sneaking, etc are still good ideas sometimes, but if they choose not to do so or those attempts fail I don't feel the need to turn things into a slaughter house.

I have zero interest in any sort of world simulation.

 

[Li Shenron]

When PCs are stupid, they get burned. Simple as that.

Me: "The thieves guild in the city is notorious for their slippery ways. They move around through sewers and rooftops, and rumors swirl that there are probably a hundred different routes the thieves use to come and go from their lair under the Broken Yard Tavern. The bartender, long suspected to be the head of the gang, easily deflects the city guard when they come searching, often laughing openly when they accuse him of crimes."
PCs: "Let's go to that tavern, and challenge him!"
Me: *Slams head to table.*

No matter how much I talk about thinking through problems, looking for alternative routes, promising full XP for any encounter defeated in any manner (i.e. bribing the guards to leave = full XP, sneaking over the wall instead of fighting the guards = full XP), I'll still get groups that have one tool and one tool only: frontal assault.

But what is the context? With so many gamers patronizing about PCs being "special", having stats quite higher than average people, being heroes already at level 1, why should you not expect them to think they are actually SUPPOSED to go against something like a criminal guild? That's pretty much a heros' job! I don't think they deserve to be called stupid.

It's one thing to go against a dragon or another gigantic monster (size is the simplest indication of power ), but especially when the players are not expert in D&D lore, it's quite reasonable for them to think a human foe without magic powers would be a normal combat challenge. Especially a criminal since most times IRL a criminal 's powers lie in deception, social manipulation and networking skills rather than physical prowess. Mafia bosses are usually old guys who couldn't throw a punch.

Yes of course a human NPC could be 20th level, but how can the players tell if the DM doesn't provide clues or opportunity to gather some lore on such adversaries?