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D&D General The thread where I review a ton of Ravenloft modules

Stormonu

Legend
In the old Ravenloft materials Remove Curse was one of the spells subject to change in the Demi-plane. It only temporarily removed the curse. :

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This does give me an idea to turn Remove Curse into a spell that only suppresses a curse for 24 hours (or less, depending on the level/CR of the curse?), and you have to do multiple successful castings to completely remove the curse (sort of like Teleportation Circle).
 

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This does give me an idea to turn Remove Curse into a spell that only suppresses a curse for 24 hours (or less, depending on the level/CR of the curse?), and you have to do multiple successful castings to completely remove the curse (sort of like Teleportation Circle).

The process for removing lycanthropy in Ravenloft was very involved, and had a reasonable chance of failure (in which case the person was permanently afflicted). First you have to kill the werewolf who infected them (and it has to be the master lycanthrope---if they were infected by another infected lycanthrope, you have to keep going back further in the chain until you find the original source of the outbreak). Then the infected character has to perform ritual cleansing. After that he or she must assume his wolf (or whatever beast it is) form. Then you have to cast atonement, cure disease and remove curse. When this is all done, the character makes a saving throw versus death (rather than polymorph). If the character fails the save he or she remains a lycanthrope (and also experiences excruciating pain) and does not get a second chance to be cured.
 

TiQuinn

Registered User
The process for removing lycanthropy in Ravenloft was very involved, and had a reasonable chance of failure (in which case the person was permanently afflicted). First you have to kill the werewolf who infected them (and it has to be the master lycanthrope---if they were infected by another infected lycanthrope, you have to keep going back further in the chain until you find the original source of the outbreak). Then the infected character has to perform ritual cleansing. After that he or she must assume his wolf (or whatever beast it is) form. Then you have to cast atonement, cure disease and remove curse. When this is all done, the character makes a saving throw versus death (rather than polymorph). If the character fails the save he or she remains a lycanthrope (and also experiences excruciating pain) and does not get a second chance to be cured.
A bit tortured, wasn’t it? Why not just say “you can’t do it” at that point.

The thing is I think in most games when a character gets lycanthropy, they kill the werewolf anyways in the same battle in which they were bit. So I really like that idea of killing the master werewolf - same as the idea of killing the master vampire in fiction. But then I’d drop the other stuff. The way I see it getting lycanthropy is taking a detour in a a campaign story. The player has to deal with that problem and once they kill the master werewolf, there’s no reason to continue the curse at that point - the detour is finished. Don’t put all these crazy stipulations in. That’s something early D&D often didn’t do well.
 

Remathilis

Legend
A bit tortured, wasn’t it? Why not just say “you can’t do it” at that point.

The thing is I think in most games when a character gets lycanthropy, they kill the werewolf anyways in the same battle in which they were bit. So I really like that idea of killing the master werewolf - same as the idea of killing the master vampire in fiction. But then I’d drop the other stuff. The way I see it getting lycanthropy is taking a detour in a a campaign story. The player has to deal with that problem and once they kill the master werewolf, there’s no reason to continue the curse at that point - the detour is finished. Don’t put all these crazy stipulations in. That’s something early D&D often didn’t do well.
That's basically how 5e simplified it in VRGR. It's definitely in the loup garou, but I think it's supposed to be for all lycanthropes in Ravenloft. Complex rituals work fine when that's the basis of the story, but doing that song and dance just because Bob rolled poorly against a random encounter is kinda rough.
 

Stormonu

Legend
A bit tortured, wasn’t it? Why not just say “you can’t do it” at that point.

The thing is I think in most games when a character gets lycanthropy, they kill the werewolf anyways in the same battle in which they were bit. So I really like that idea of killing the master werewolf - same as the idea of killing the master vampire in fiction. But then I’d drop the other stuff. The way I see it getting lycanthropy is taking a detour in a a campaign story. The player has to deal with that problem and once they kill the master werewolf, there’s no reason to continue the curse at that point - the detour is finished. Don’t put all these crazy stipulations in. That’s something early D&D often didn’t do well.
I'm pretty sure that was specific to Ravenloft and meant to give the DM a "legal" method to keep PCs infected for "story" reasons. It was basically a "you can't do it, until I let you" situation, and done purposely for the weekend-in-hell reputation the campaign setting had.
 

A bit tortured, wasn’t it? Why not just say “you can’t do it” at that point.

The thing is I think in most games when a character gets lycanthropy, they kill the werewolf anyways in the same battle in which they were bit. So I really like that idea of killing the master werewolf - same as the idea of killing the master vampire in fiction. But then I’d drop the other stuff. The way I see it getting lycanthropy is taking a detour in a a campaign story. The player has to deal with that problem and once they kill the master werewolf, there’s no reason to continue the curse at that point - the detour is finished. Don’t put all these crazy stipulations in. That’s something early D&D often didn’t do well.

It wasn't trying to make it impossible, just very difficult. The point of it really is to make lycanthropy not a minor deal, make it frightening on an existential level for the character, and also make it something where there is an adventure element to it (the whole process of finding the master lycanthrope, going through the process, was a pretty engaging adventure). This is one of the areas I found Ravenloft worked quite well. I love werewolves and lycanthropes in general. It just worked really well at the table for me (especially if you incorporated Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts. And there is a chance it could be all for naught, which is what made it scary and exciting.
 



While I agree that Remove Curse is too easy in a horror game, the old system is a bit too much. I find the VRGR system to be a good compromise.

Again, I think it boils down to preference. If you like that, it is perfectly reasonable to want it to be less involved. For me the involvedness of the old method is what makes it work at the table
 

The thing is I think in most games when a character gets lycanthropy, they kill the werewolf anyways in the same battle in which they were bit. So I really like that idea of killing the master werewolf - same as the idea of killing the master vampire in fiction. But then I’d drop the other stuff. The way I see it getting lycanthropy is taking a detour in a a campaign story. The player has to deal with that problem and once they kill the master werewolf, there’s no reason to continue the curse at that point - the detour is finished. Don’t put all these crazy stipulations in. That’s something early D&D often didn’t do well.

The master werewolf aspect is definitely one of the key elements that work. Again this is all preference. But for me the detour is the point. It is lycanthropy. Once a character gets lycanthropy that becomes the story. I like that the horrors of the world linger, can even destroy you. A lot of this just comes down to what you like at the table
 

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