D&D 5E (2014) Dispel Evil and Good cleric spell 5th level in use

[Stalker0]

I would consider a charmed or frightened condition sufficiently different from possession to require separate analysis.

So in this case the body is dominated by a person who clearly doesn't want the domination removed. How is that different from a spirit who doesn't want to leave the possessing body?


The way the spell works to me is..... Possession and Domination are conditions that are applied to a creature, they do not replace the creature. Its also why a possessing ghost can't be target by an attack....because the the attack is still targeting the OG creature, not the ghost.

So if I have a spell that can cure a condition, whether its possession or charmed, it is targetted at the OG creature. And since most restorative spells don't require attack rolls or saving throws to work....neither does Dispel Evil and good.

 

[Plaguescarred]

What you are describing is one common circumstance where something can definitely be ridden RAW which then applies the rules for mounted combat in the PHB

What it doesn’t say is that only a willing creatures that is are least one size larger can ever be ridden. It’s just that those circumstances aren’t covered by the Mounted Combat rules.

The DM being allowed (and indeed required) to determine alternative conditions is also RAW.

There's only one rule for mounting creatures which is the perspective i was giving, which is different than a DM making a ruling of his own.

 

[billd91]

So in this case the body is dominated by a person who clearly doesn't want the domination removed. How is that different from a spirit who doesn't want to leave the possessing body?


The way the spell works to me is..... Possession and Domination are conditions that are applied to a creature, they do not replace the creature. Its also why a possessing ghost can't be target by an attack....because the the attack is still targeting the OG creature, not the ghost.

So if I have a spell that can cure a condition, whether its possession or charmed, it is targetted at the OG creature. And since most restorative spells don't require attack rolls or saving throws to work....neither does Dispel Evil and good.

Possession is much stronger form of control than the dominate spells. While a dominated creature may be given orders, they have their own faculties, can do what they want when not carrying out an order, and have potential for repeated saves. None of that applies to possession. A possessed creature is essentially incapacitated with the possessing entity inhabiting the target's body and exerting full control as if it were their own body. So, yeah, I'd figure expelling them should be tougher than breaking a charm or frightened effect.
They really aren't the same.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Lets extend this to another aspect of Dispel Evil and Good.

Ok I am dominated by an undead lich. You use break enchantment on me to remove the charmed condition (aka the dominate).

Do you require a save or an attack roll for that effect?

Neither - The creature you touch is no longer charmed, frightened, or possessed by such creatures - No roll required.

 

[Stalker0]

Possession is much stronger form of control than the dominate spells.

Domination is also a much stronger form of control than a charm person spell is. So would you not allow dispel evil and good to remove domination because it "only " removed the charmed condition?

 

[TheSword]

There's only one rule for mounting creatures which is the perspective i was giving, which is different than a DM making a ruling of his own.

Yes. I guess my point is that only one rule doesn’t mean there is only one realistic method. D&D is not and has never been a board game.

 

[billd91]

Domination is also a much stronger form of control than a charm person spell is. So would you not allow dispel evil and good to remove domination because it "only " removed the charmed condition?

Domination's effect is based on the charmed condition. Can domination still work without it? I don't think so since the ability to have the telepathic link and issue commands requires the target to be charmed.

But that doesn't mean that breaking domination effects with a 5th level spell isn't a touch problematic - particularly when you consider that domination effect may be put in place by a spell 3 levels higher. "Repair" spells often undo spell effects of slightly higher levels - such as Greater Restoration (5th level) undoing Flesh to Stone (6th level - one level difference). But either Greater Restoration or Dispel Evil/Good as 5th level spells breaking the 8th level Dominate Monster without some contest of the level differential (as with Dispel Magic or 2014 Counterspell) is quite a beneficial trade in spell slots. And when you consider that possession is even more powerful than that 8th level spell effect... whoo boy does that Dispel Evil/Good punch above its weight.

 

[Stalker0]

Domination's effect is based on the charmed condition.

And a ghost's possession ability for example literally sites the dispel good and evil spell as a way to remove it, it too has this embedded on its rules context.


My issue here is, if people want to houserule some spells because they don't quite fit their aesthetic of what they want the game to be, that is perfectly fine (I have a few spell houserules of my own). But in this discussion I think there are some debating that genuinely believe the spell is "incorrect", that it is not working as intended and is supposed to have an attack roll or save.

And that is where I disagree, the spell seems to be 100% working as intended.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Yeah if you're no longer charmed, Dominate Monster can't affect you since you no longer have a telepathic link by which the lich caster issue you commands to obey.

Similarly if you're no longer possessed by a ghost, it no longer control you.