D&D 5E D&D Promises to Make the Game More Queer

[tombowings]

No issue with imposing neo-colonial ideologies on the rest of the world though, those poor "developing peoples" surely western democracy is the answer to all their prayers... yeah right.

Like I said, time and place. D&D is not a political science class. It's not a interviewing 101 workshop. It's not a newspaper column. It's a game.

If Crawford wants to make a well reasoned, researched argument or have an intellectual discussion about the LGBT on Waking Up with Sam Harris, that's awesome. I'd even listen to it, and I'm sure I'd enjoy what he had to say, but inserting ones own propaganda into a children's game is not an appropriate way to win the war of ideas.

 

[Wepwawet]

(...) inserting ones own propaganda into a children's game is not an appropriate way to win the war of ideas.

Oh, it's a children's game now... Murder, theft, witchcraft & rape are fine, as long as there's no hint of gays.

 

[Morrus]

Like I said, time and place. D&D is not a political science class. It's not a interviewing 101 workshop. It's not a newspaper column. It's a game.

D&D's what you want it to be. It can be a simple escapist fantasy, or it can be an educational tool, or it can be a social outlet. Or a combination of all of them and other things. You don't get to proscribe what D&D is, other than to tell us what it is to you. If people want to write and publish games with gay characters in them, nobody gets to tell them they can't. If people want to play games with gay characters in them, nobody gets to tell them they can't. To many people, seeing themselves represented in art - TV, games, movies, literature - is important. Art, whether it be a painting, a poem, a game, or a book, is historically one of the most important mediums for the communication of ideas, philosophies, and viewpoints.

 

[Eltab]

I've generally found that spotlighting issues of sexuality in a D&D game detracts from the game, not enhances it.
It's just the kind of thing that works best while in the background. Sure, there are some people there; this is normal and unremarkable.

The Amazons are the only thing I can think of offhand where 'alternative societies' (all-women) added to the plot.

 

[Draegn]

Corporations used to talk endlessly on diversity and being diverse within the workplace. Then the U.S. elected Donald Trump and it was changed to inclusive and inclusivity.

 

[tombowings]

• Black characters of any class
• Black WIZARDS! (imagine that, a person of colour taking a highly academic path)
• Effective female characters who are not simply the sexy sidekick
• Armour for women that actually protects them. Unlike those metal bras that perk boobs up

Until not that long ago, these would be termed as political/ideological propaganda by some people.

Nowadays we see a wide variety of peoples in the PHB and it's wonderful!
I'm a white male and I don't feel any less included because there's illustrations of female characters in the book, and of people of all colours. Obviously.

With LGBTQ characters it's exactly the same. They're simply people. People that exist and play the game.

It is very important to show how inclusive and welcoming the game is.

You're misrepresenting my point. I'm not arguing against inclusion. I don't care there are gay NPCs in adventures, honestly. I care about people trying to use a game to make an ideological statement instead of using reasoned, well researched arguments. There is a time and a place for ideological debate, but D&D isn't it. WotC drawing attention to any one of your example would resulted in the exact same response from me. Do it. Include all those things, but don't do it in order to push propaganda on others.

I have no problem with Crawford including gay NPCs in published adventures. I have a problem with him trying to influence public opinion in what is, to me, an uncomfortable way. The content is not the issue. The intent and methodology is. We would be having a very different discussion that same methodology was used to promote a view you were not in favor of. So why don't we all leave ideology for intellectual discussions and let this wonderful game remain what it is, a game, not a vehicle of political propaganda.

 

[jasper]

What does medieval Europe has to do with it?
It's a fantasy game in fantasy worlds. There's only a slightly aesthetic resemblance with historical Europe.

The game is called Dungeons & Dragons, not "Plague & Inquisition"

did some one call.
The Inquisition, let's begin
The Inquisition, look out sin
We have a mission to convert the Other editions (Other edition Other edition Other edition Other editions)
We're gonna teach them wrong from right
We're gonna help them see the light
And make an offer that they can't refuse (that the Other editions just can't Refuse)

Fifth edition (fifth edition, fifth edition)
Don't be boring
Say yes (say yes, say yes)
Don't be dull

A fact
You're ignoring:
It's better to lose your dice bag than your skull

The Inquisition, what a show
The Inquisition, here we go
We know you're wishing
That we'd go away
But the Inquisition's here and it's here to stay
The Inquisition, oh boy
The Inquisition, what a joy
The Inquisition, oy oy

I was sitting in a FLGS
I was minding my own business
I was playing to a lovely Pathfinder quest
Then these petty persons plunge in, and they throw me in a

Dungeon, and they shove a red hot d4 up my beep

Is that considerate?
Is that polite?
And not a tube of Preparation H in sight

I'm sitting, flicking d8s and I'm looking at the results

And suddenly these dudes break down my walls
I didn't even know them and they grabbed me by the scrotum and

They started playing ping pong with my balls

Oy, the agony
Ooh, the shame
To make my privates public for a game

The Inquisition, what a show
The Inquisition, here we go
We know you're wishing
That we'd go away
But the Inquisition's here and it's here to -

- Hey, Torquemada, whaddaya say?
I just got back from the gencon
Gencon, what's an gencon?
It's what you oughtn't to do but you do anyway

Skit skat voodely vat tootin de day

Will you convert?
No, no, no, no
Will you fifth edition?
No, no, no, no
Will you revert?
No, no, no, no
Will you say yes?
No, no, no, no

Now I ask in a nice way, I said pretty please, I bent their ears,

Now I'll work on their knees!

Hey, Torquemada, walk this way
We got a little game that you might wanna play
So pull that handle, try your luck
Who knows, Torq, you might win a buck!
All right!

Put it in the car (in the car x2)

How we doing? Any converts today?
Not a one, nay, nay, nay
We've flattened their fingers
We branded their buns
Nothing is working
Send in the newbs!

The Inquisition, what a show
The Inquisition, here we go
We know you're wishing
That we'd go away
So, c'mon you Pathfinders and you Other editions
We got big news for all of youse
You better change your point of views today
'Cause the Inquisition's here and it's here to stay

 

[tombowings]

Oh, it's a children's game now... Murder, theft, witchcraft & rape are fine, as long as there's no hint of gays.

View attachment 87776

Once again, you are misrepresent my argument in poor faith. Either we can have a discussion in which we refute each other's points, or we can agree to disagree, but I see no need for crass mockery of this sort.

 

[jasper]

The only problem I have is editing. I recently play tested a module. About half the table reflex thought it should been his spouse, etc. This was compounded due to one of the names being fantasy and genderless. Once I read out loud the flavor a second time it made sense it was a gay couple. But we were looking for game play and wording issues.

 

[Yaarel]

Propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.

According to the article presented in the OP, Crawford said “I wasn’t about to have this book go out and not acknowledge that people like me exist."

Please explain to me now he isn't interested in promoting a certain ideological perspective.

Crawford is speaking as a creative artist. Artists must be able to express *themselves* in order for their work to be authentic, holistic, compelling, and interesting.

D&D is a collaborative project of many artists.